Badlands Classic.

[Buster Charlie]

Hello all, Just figured i'd post some VERY early screenshots from a remake of Badlands i'm doing. I'm basically boxing in the map right now, so all the textures are messed up and there are no real details.

I'm still playing with the lighting, I'd eventualy like peoples opinions on that. I'm not sure if I should try and match the original sun angle as much as possible or tweak it. If I lower the sun angle it'll cast longer shadows, and by making the shadows a bit darker I could make more hiding spots for snipers and spies in the open (or even scouts).

Right now my goal is a faithful reproduction, but using the enhancements of source (displacements, better lighting, 3d skybox, etc).

I've got the outdoor areas boxed in, and am refining the insides now.

I'll keep everyone updated. When I finish this if it's popular I might do a 'TF2' style one in the 'farm/industrial' themes of TF2, but right now i'm gonna keep it faithful to the original.

Right now my focus is a well done (as in clean and optimized) version of the original that people can enjoy now, instead of some bloated project that will take many months. I also want to avoid the rushed state of some custom maps i've seen.

Anyway here are some sneak peeks.
http://img250.imageshack.us/img250/8173/badlandsclassic6rw9.th.jpg (http://img250.imageshack.us/my.php?image=badlandsclassic6rw9.jpg)
http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/7126/badlandsclassic1by2.th.jpg (http://img249.imageshack.us/my.php?image=badlandsclassic1by2.jpg)
http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/4572/badlandsclassic2yl8.th.jpg (http://img265.imageshack.us/my.php?image=badlandsclassic2yl8.jpg)
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/8237/badlandsclassic3hv8.th.jpg (http://img442.imageshack.us/my.php?image=badlandsclassic3hv8.jpg)

[Buster Charlie]

two more pics.
http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/9464/badlandsclassic4ko7.th.jpg (http://img147.imageshack.us/my.php?image=badlandsclassic4ko7.jpg)
http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/3690/badlandsclassic5nv0.th.jpg (http://img70.imageshack.us/my.php?image=badlandsclassic5nv0.jpg)

[ThatGuy]

Oh wow very nice job, the only bad thing is there's rumors of cp_badlands in the proccess, & there's even proof with badlands textures & files to it so I hope that they don't make the map after you have yours finished..

[Buster Charlie]

Oh wow very nice job, the only bad thing is there's rumors of cp_badlands in the proccess, & there's even proof with badlands textures & files to it so I hope that they don't make the map after you have yours finished..

I'm fine with a official version, especially if its cp. I was thinking how badlands would lend itself to cp but i want to bring back one of my favorite ctf maps for tfc. If people want ctf they will play this map, and if not, it'll be good practice.

[A Boojum Snark]

What are you doing in place of the copious amounts of ladders that appeared in badlands?

[Scoobingsthe2nd]

If they're making a CP_Badlands then I would LOVE to see a badlands classic. I hate it when valve turns CTF maps into CP maps, it's fuckin dumb.

[Immortal-D]

If they're making a CP_Badlands then I would LOVE to see a badlands classic. I hate it when valve turns CTF maps into CP maps, it's fuckin dumb.

Agreed. While I am rather fond of cp_well, I don't like that Valve used the name.

[Scoobingsthe2nd]

Agreed. While I am rather fond of cp_well, I don't like that Valve used the name.

not to mention well classic is poorly made :\

There's a project someone could take up.

[A Boojum Snark]

There's a well classic out there?

[Buster Charlie]

Embarasingly enough when I started this project I didn't realize TF2 can't do ladders. However I'm sure with some clever design I could keep the flow as close to the original while getting people around without ladders.

[TheBladeRoden]

lifts still work

[Buster Charlie]

I think I will adapt the main Silo Entrance for a lift. because it's such a large height that it would be impractical to do a spiral staircase, it would take forever to run up it, and people would be falling off and it sould suck.

The canyon ropes i'd probably do a small rock staircase of some sort, disguise it as a rock pile or part of the cliff wall. Same with the two ladders leading up from the cayon to the base courtyard.

[Scoobingsthe2nd]

Embarasingly enough when I started this project I didn't realize TF2 can't do ladders. However I'm sure with some clever design I could keep the flow as close to the original while getting people around without ladders.

it's a bitch huh :P

[Snipergen]

its good we have no ladders, in counterstrike it looks hilarious and it wouldnt fit in TF2 too :p

I like how you start building your map, block it out, thats how i do it too ;) I bet this is going to be a beauty

[Buster Charlie]

its good we have no ladders, in counterstrike it looks hilarious and it wouldnt fit in TF2 too :p

I like how you start building your map, block it out, thats how i do it too ;) I bet this is going to be a beauty

I tried to add a lot of detail in the early attempt but it gets so cluttered it's hard to make sure the map is sealed, and also if you have to resize a doorway or hallway it's a BITCH to resize and keep stuff sealed.

So right now i'm just doing the bare minimum vis blocking and level sealing structures. The extra details will be entities so they dont cut up the level, but they wouldn't block vis anyway so why make them out of brushes.

[Scoobingsthe2nd]

yeah, I find it's a good idea to block it out first too :D

[Buster Charlie]

Updates:

Roughed in, canyons done, silos and tunnels done, 90% of internal structures done, the only thing that is NOT done is the external base face.

Only the sky light is done, i'll probably tweak the lighting to take advantage of source. Need to work on the doors when it's roughed in.

[ThatGuy]

more screenies? :D

[Buster Charlie]

more screenies? :D

I will once I finish rendering the map.

Right now the boxed map is 100% 'alpha'

The map should be sealed off, I'll check for leaks. I then need to check vis optimization and scale. I need to add some basic lighting because most of the in game lights were texture lights. I need to add proper spawn points and a flag and game rules.

I then need to replace the missing ladders.

Once I get this stuff done I will then nodraw the entire map and do a basic texture job on the visible surfaces.

Once this is done I will probably release an alpha map for people to test.

I need peoples input on the scale of the map for TF2 (because I basically used the original with some stuff enlarged (sewer entrance) for TF2 players.

I need people to test for hangups on brushes, missing or misaligned textures, ugly lighting. I need people with older machines to test for playability.

Once I get a solid 'yes' on the above topics I will start detailing the world with more complex stuff like props, more displacements, 3d sky box, more detailed brushwork.

Eventually I would like to render the entire map in "TF2" style but for the first release it will be in Classic TFC because that will take the least amount of time.

[killanator]

There's a well classic out there?

a few versions actually...quite fun realy

[Buster Charlie]

I'll try to get a shot, I've textured the main spawn roughly, but i'm still fighting smoothing groups. Also the cubemap function still appears broken so it'll take that figuring out.

Okay the cube maps appear to work maybe but I still get the purple checkers on the reflective floor material. I want to use that floor tile because the BLU team logo would be good for the cap point.

sorry for the crappy shots i'm still trying to figure out the lighting in source, it's much more flexable so there are a lot of options.

http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/774/boxlandstexture0001kb6.th.jpg (http://img122.imageshack.us/my.php?image=boxlandstexture0001kb6.jpg)
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/9132/boxlandstexture0002hz3.th.jpg (http://img407.imageshack.us/my.php?image=boxlandstexture0002hz3.jpg)
http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/743/boxlandstexture0000nk0.th.jpg (http://img405.imageshack.us/my.php?image=boxlandstexture0000nk0.jpg)

[Snipergen]

this starts looking good man really! just make sure to build cubemaps :p but do that the last thing cos everything with reflection is still purple for me too in my map :p

[Buster Charlie]

I think i'm gonna scour the vale maps for lighting setups and put them all in a test map. I might even 'publish' it as a reference for some common TF2 lighting setups. for me at least it'll give me a guide on how to do TF2-like lighting.

[Buster Charlie]

Map is pretty much 100% roughed out.

No leaks, whole map is roughed in.

I need to figure out why the skybox is giving me errors, I'm getting that stupid checker texture on my reflective floors.

Also I need to redo the lighting, it's aweful, but that wasn't my focus anyway.

as always texturing and details are super alpha. A lot of rocks will be done with displacements, which is why some areas look larger than they originally are.

http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/5502/badlandsclassic30020af3.th.jpg (http://img166.imageshack.us/my.php?image=badlandsclassic30020af3.jpg)
http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/1223/badlandsclassic30000pt0.th.jpg (http://img165.imageshack.us/my.php?image=badlandsclassic30000pt0.jpg)
http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/9281/badlandsclassic30001kf9.th.jpg (http://img156.imageshack.us/my.php?image=badlandsclassic30001kf9.jpg)
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/600/badlandsclassic30002st1.th.jpg (http://img214.imageshack.us/my.php?image=badlandsclassic30002st1.jpg)

[ThatGuy]

Cool, nice job :D

I wonder how it will playout in TF2

[Buster Charlie]

Okay I fixed the cubemap issue by using the hydro skybox which is aparently the only one not broken in hammer.

I've been playing around with lighting, but it's still super rough.

http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/3640/badlandsclassic30002cj2.th.jpg (http://img115.imageshack.us/my.php?image=badlandsclassic30002cj2.jpg)
http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/1525/badlandsclassic30003wu0.th.jpg (http://img114.imageshack.us/my.php?image=badlandsclassic30003wu0.jpg)
http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/8748/badlandsclassic30004ke9.th.jpg (http://img108.imageshack.us/my.php?image=badlandsclassic30004ke9.jpg)
http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/7488/badlandsclassic30006fw3.th.jpg (http://img108.imageshack.us/my.php?image=badlandsclassic30006fw3.jpg)

[Buster Charlie]

Some new shots, the bunkers are a bit more refined. I replaced the bunker ladder with a steep set of 'stairs' They seem to work fine, very fast to ascend. Started basic work on displacements. So far so good.
http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/8991/badlandsclassic50005ii0.th.jpg (http://img216.imageshack.us/my.php?image=badlandsclassic50005ii0.jpg)
http://img124.imageshack.us/img124/6748/badlandsclassic50001og2.th.jpg (http://img124.imageshack.us/my.php?image=badlandsclassic50001og2.jpg)
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/9301/badlandsclassic50002rt9.th.jpg (http://img153.imageshack.us/my.php?image=badlandsclassic50002rt9.jpg)
http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/8017/badlandsclassic50004qn4.th.jpg (http://img232.imageshack.us/my.php?image=badlandsclassic50004qn4.jpg)

Hopefully these shots are a bit more exciting than the last ones.

[vartaxe]

keep up the good work;)

[Buster Charlie]

keep up the good work;)

Thanks, I'm working on the canyon displacements now. I'm thinking of doing a shallow steam running through the canyon, emptying from drains in the base dumping water down their silos. So basically you'd have a very shallow (would not put out fire or effect speed) stream running from the back solo, out the base, down the path to the middle, and the same on the other side. Maybe in the middle i'd have a small crack in the cliff were the water flows to, nothing that would effect gameplay but just for looks. I know water can have a negative impact on gameplay as far as slower machines.

I think it'll look nice and give a more realistic feel to the map, but I could always make it a implied 'dry' riverbed if you guys feel that it would be too much glitz.

Also I'm really tempted to do a 'night' version of this map with the outdoors being mostly dark, and having big spotlights outside the base to watch out for enemies. But Maybe have the lights be switchable so the enemy can shut down your spotlights.

[Buster Charlie]

Okay, after a lot of work, the displacements for the canyon are nearly done. I still have to do the displcements inside the base, and the displacements in the front of the base. But the Canyon is pretty much 90% done (I need to tweak em, and finish the second cave but it's good so far)

I added a displacement ground with a small stream of water heading out of the base (with a sewer grate inside the base to explain were the water is coming from, i'll probably add more pipes and stuff.

I made the canyon overhang a bit for more dramatic shadows and looks. For the bunker I made a steep set of stairs that look like a ladder. For the Canyon I added a cave under the bridge, it's a U turn half spiral staircase made of rock.

It works pretty good and you can ascend it pretty zippy, it should also be a good ambush spot. I need to add a mirrored cave on the other side but besides that the canyon is pretty good. And with some good hint brush use the rendering is pretty smooth.

The silo entrance has a simple touch activated elevator. It moves pretty fast and stops at the 1st floor level, it does 25 damage if you get caught in it, mostly to discourage 100 people from packing on the elevator at once (something you couldn't do with the ladder) but I might take that away if it's too buggy. I didn't add any lighting near the elevator so no screen shot, but basically it's a metal grate inside a metal ring attached to the wall of the silo by a arm that rides in a rail.

Still a lot of work to go but it's looking good so far.

indoor lighting is 90% placeholder for now.


http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/7654/canyon2vq7.th.jpg (http://img509.imageshack.us/my.php?image=canyon2vq7.jpg)
http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/6274/canyonjw4.th.jpg (http://img411.imageshack.us/my.php?image=canyonjw4.jpg)
http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/5611/flagroompa6.th.jpg (http://img505.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flagroompa6.jpg)
http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/5536/frontcw8.th.jpg (http://img502.imageshack.us/my.php?image=frontcw8.jpg)

[Buster Charlie]

More shots
http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/487/lowerbunkerim0.th.jpg (http://img340.imageshack.us/my.php?image=lowerbunkerim0.jpg)
http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/5127/newcavegi9.th.jpg (http://img523.imageshack.us/my.php?image=newcavegi9.jpg)
http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/1368/sewerfx4.th.jpg (http://img408.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sewerfx4.jpg)
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/9378/topbunkerzd7.th.jpg (http://img153.imageshack.us/my.php?image=topbunkerzd7.jpg)

[Buster Charlie]

Ah the sun! it burns!
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/3776/sunwu7.th.jpg (http://img407.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sunwu7.jpg)

[Buster Charlie]

Adding more details, finished the front displacements (still need to tidy them up and add some nodraws to create proper shadows) Adding more details to the interior, adding some structural supports to the map to make it look a little more interesting.
http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/6349/badlandsclassic140006ln0.th.jpg (http://img522.imageshack.us/my.php?image=badlandsclassic140006ln0.jpg)
http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/120/badlandsclassic140000jq3.th.jpg (http://img521.imageshack.us/my.php?image=badlandsclassic140000jq3.jpg)
http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/15/badlandsclassic140001vi9.th.jpg (http://img519.imageshack.us/my.php?image=badlandsclassic140001vi9.jpg)
http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/1741/badlandsclassic140002qj1.th.jpg (http://img516.imageshack.us/my.php?image=badlandsclassic140002qj1.jpg)

[Buster Charlie]

http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/4439/badlandsclassic140003xr2.th.jpg (http://img527.imageshack.us/my.php?image=badlandsclassic140003xr2.jpg)
http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/9324/badlandsclassic140004nc6.th.jpg (http://img86.imageshack.us/my.php?image=badlandsclassic140004nc6.jpg)

[vartaxe]

awesome! :tt1:

[Crimson]

I am more excited about this map than when Valve finally releases there next addition of maps. This looks amazing man, keep up the great work. I think it goes without saying this will be in rotation on my server lol.

[ThatGuy]

That really looks awesome, very nice job.

Any ideas when beta will be released?

[Buster Charlie]

I'm having so much fun adding detail I'm neglecting the beta release. :)

What I need to do before beta:
Fix silo elevator.
Finish rest of Doors.
Finish gameplay logic (flag cap, etc)

Finish displacements for inside base (the placeholder geometry is not good for gameplay, just sealing the map).

I work tommrow but I'll try and get a beta version out in the next few days if not sooner. I know you guys wanna play this but I don't want to release a crappy map!

Here are some rear entrance way shots, I tweaked the lighting a bit more to be a bit more dramatic and show off the geometry better. I also am designing this portion of the base to be a bit 'under developed' Very rough, lots of exposed wiring, crude finish, and low tech lighting. The main bottom portion of the base and the respawn areas will be more refined and classy looking.

http://img486.imageshack.us/img486/5511/bottombunkerao9.th.jpg (http://img486.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bottombunkerao9.jpg)
This is a shot of the bottom bunker, you can see some signs and a misc locker for looks (locker is not a resupply locker)
http://img488.imageshack.us/img488/5485/bottombunker2ew0.th.jpg (http://img488.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bottombunker2ew0.jpg)
stairs/ladder leading up to the rear entrance, a fire extinguisher added and some propane tanks behind the stairs for clutter.

Inside of the bunker is darker now, like the original, both to contrast the blazing sun outside, but also to provide snipers a bit more shade to hide in.

http://img490.imageshack.us/img490/8244/topbunkeryv0.th.jpg (http://img490.imageshack.us/my.php?image=topbunkeryv0.jpg)
Looking inside the base, someone left the security door open! DOH!.

I added signs pretty much everywhere to let people know where stuff is, let me know if you think I added TOO many signs?

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/4111/rearentranceug1.th.jpg (http://img99.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rearentranceug1.jpg)
Standing just inside the base, you can see the respawn room, and the exit.
Lots of hanging wires, which are carefully draped over pipes because apparently conduits are too high tech for TF2. I hope I didn't go overboard, but I wanted the lights to have a visible source of power so it's not just magically getting it's lighting from nowhere. The base is carved out of a cliff, so I wanted to keep this part of the base rough and utilitarian.

[Buster Charlie]

Back respawn room, enlarged a bit to add supply lockers, original one was a shoebox.
http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/5840/respawnnz7.th.jpg (http://img523.imageshack.us/my.php?image=respawnnz7.jpg)

Will add more eye candy to it later.

Corner hallway between exit and spawnroom.
http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/1815/hallwaycornerve0.th.jpg (http://img208.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hallwaycornerve0.jpg)
view from battlements into base.
http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/8484/battlementcornermx8.th.jpg (http://img213.imageshack.us/my.php?image=battlementcornermx8.jpg)

View from top of spiral stairs looking to secondary spawn.
http://img473.imageshack.us/img473/4894/spiraltopyd2.th.jpg (http://img473.imageshack.us/my.php?image=spiraltopyd2.jpg)

[Buster Charlie]

Two views of flag room.

http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/2051/flagroomtopzp9.th.jpg (http://img516.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flagroomtopzp9.jpg)
http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/5372/flagroomnp1.th.jpg (http://img502.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flagroomnp1.jpg)


My biggest concern is the map looking like las Vegas with all the signs, but at the same time I don't want the map to be confusing for new players.

[Immortal-D]

I'm speechless. This is one of the most professional looking maps I've ever seen. I'm curious, what's your prop % at when you do a full compile?

[Buster Charlie]

I'm speechless. This is one of the most professional looking maps I've ever seen. I'm curious, what's your prop % at when you do a full compile?

This will be my second map ever. My first was a limited release novelty 'party' map I did for TFC.

I hope if this is a sucess I will be able to do a map of my own design, and I hope this learning experience will allow me to try and finish this faster.

How do I parse the number of objects from the log file?

I removed some of the signs, Pretty much keeping them closer to the original signs. I've added a few more props to the spawn rooms to spice em up, But I really need to increase their size, the original TFC spawn rooms are tiny, in fact while this is a large map, a lot of the rooms are rather small.

I need to fix my doors, my areaportals are not properly working. Need to work on lighting.

It'll take a while to clean it up and get it ready for beta, hopefully this week depending on how much time I have before work.

[Half-Life_Maniac]

I've been working on a Badlands remake of my own for a while now. Being the world's slowest mapper is not helping me either..

I'm considering not bothering now that I've seen some of the more recent screenshots of your map. To be honest, I wasn't expecting much from the first screenshots- it looked to much like a direct port, but now it seems to be shaping up a lot more.

On the other hand, I think what I've got is still a lot more TF2-like. I'd show some screenshots, but I havn't compiled anything yet.

What do you reckon? Is it worth me abanoning my map?

[Buster Charlie]

I've been working on a Badlands remake of my own for a while now. Being the world's slowest mapper is not helping me either..

I'm considering not bothering now that I've seen some of the more recent screenshots of your map. To be honest, I wasn't expecting much from the first screenshots- it looked to much like a direct port, but now it seems to be shaping up a lot more.

On the other hand, I think what I've got is still a lot more TF2-like. I'd show some screenshots, but I havn't compiled anything yet.

What do you reckon? Is it worth me abanoning my map?

If you are capturing the TF2 style then I would feel bad if you didn't release it. I'm releasing mine sooner because it's quicker to do a remake of a TFC map than completely re-invision it in the style of TF2.

If you are enjoying the map, keep at it! But if not, then work on something new? I was worried someone would release a port before me, but I also restarted this map at least once so every attempt is a learning experience.

Think: If this CTF version is popular, why not release yours as CP? Badlands is big enough. You could add some caves to the canyon area to enlarge it, add more parts to the base. I was severely tempted to expand the size of the map but I wanted to keep the original game play flow. Mostly so I wouldn't have to play test it as much!

Let's see some renders, compile often!

[Scoobingsthe2nd]

I'm always more of a fan when maps go the TF2 feel as opposed to the TFC feel... maybe you should post screenshots.

That said this map looks very good for what it's trying to achieve and I really look forward to playing it!:w00t:

[Buster Charlie]

I'm always more of a fan when maps go the TF2 feel as opposed to the TFC feel... maybe you should post screenshots.

That said this map looks very good for what it's trying to achieve and I really look forward to playing it!:w00t:

I agree with you 100%, and I am TRYING to keep it TF2 as much as possible, i'm not using ANY non TF2 textures or resources. I just felt that having a playable map sooner was more important than having a TF2 style conversion 6 months down the line. There is a sad lack of CTF maps in TF2.

[Buster Charlie]

Some quick updates, lots of pics

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/7449/badlandsclassic210003eu1.th.jpg (http://img339.imageshack.us/my.php?image=badlandsclassic210003eu1.jpg)
This is just some fluff side room for decoration. This is a 3 story 'engineering room' with some industrial equipment.

Another shot of the flag cap room:

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/6830/badlandsclassic210000ly8.th.jpg (http://img261.imageshack.us/my.php?image=badlandsclassic210000ly8.jpg)

You see some windows, and a door to the 'fluff' room. I wanted the respawn/cap point to seem a lot larger than it was in the original so I added some 'base' stuff.


http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/4499/badlandsclassic210001im7.th.jpg (http://img258.imageshack.us/my.php?image=badlandsclassic210001im7.jpg)
http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/6078/badlandsclassic210002rj4.th.jpg (http://img254.imageshack.us/my.php?image=badlandsclassic210002rj4.jpg)

shots of the 'computer room'

[Buster Charlie]

http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/5369/badlandsclassic210007vq5.th.jpg (http://img266.imageshack.us/my.php?image=badlandsclassic210007vq5.jpg)
Shot of the battlements, I added some reinforcement ribbing to this area, kinda has this cathedral thing going on.
Another shot of respawn.
http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/5222/badlandsclassic210004qq7.th.jpg (http://img265.imageshack.us/my.php?image=badlandsclassic210004qq7.jpg)
outside of base again
http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/7466/badlandsclassic210006uh3.th.jpg (http://img402.imageshack.us/my.php?image=badlandsclassic210006uh3.jpg)
sewer shot, I need to fix the lighting, too dark.

http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/2236/badlandsclassic210012ro9.th.jpg (http://img520.imageshack.us/my.php?image=badlandsclassic210012ro9.jpg)

[Buster Charlie]

Another battlement shot.
http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/9774/badlandsclassic210009hy3.th.jpg (http://img503.imageshack.us/my.php?image=badlandsclassic210009hy3.jpg)

Secondary respawn room.
http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/5497/badlandsclassic210010wr8.th.jpg (http://img443.imageshack.us/my.php?image=badlandsclassic210010wr8.jpg)

Fixed up the sniper towers, added some concrete blocks for the foot path and a railing, plus some drainage pipes
http://img442.imageshack.us/my.php?image=badlandsclassic210011en7.jpg

Flag exit point
http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/2882/badlandsclassic210017xz5.th.jpg (http://img520.imageshack.us/my.php?image=badlandsclassic210017xz5.jpg)

[Buster Charlie]

http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/6326/badlandsclassic210014ai4.th.jpg (http://img503.imageshack.us/my.php?image=badlandsclassic210014ai4.jpg)
Shitty shot of the elevator.

Lower area shot:
http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/5742/badlandsclassic210015nt5.th.jpg (http://img266.imageshack.us/my.php?image=badlandsclassic210015nt5.jpg)
http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/2209/badlandsclassic210016cm0.th.jpg (http://img265.imageshack.us/my.php?image=badlandsclassic210016cm0.jpg)


TEH FLAG!
http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/4846/badlandsclassic210021mm9.th.jpg (http://img520.imageshack.us/my.php?image=badlandsclassic210021mm9.jpg)

[Buster Charlie]

TEH flagroom exit room

http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/9520/badlandsclassic210018dn2.th.jpg (http://img503.imageshack.us/my.php?image=badlandsclassic210018dn2.jpg)

Another flagroom moneyshot
http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/4961/badlandsclassic210019pc1.th.jpg (http://img340.imageshack.us/my.php?image=badlandsclassic210019pc1.jpg)

the flag
http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/586/badlandsclassic210020zk2.th.jpg (http://img339.imageshack.us/my.php?image=badlandsclassic210020zk2.jpg)

[Scoobingsthe2nd]

ahh, memories.

[TheBladeRoden]

Indeed memories of a month ago going through the TFC maps trying to theorize which ones people who actually played the game would want remade.

[Pad See Ew]

Have you or anyone tried using the flag model that comes with TF2, instead of the Intel Briefcase?

[Buster Charlie]

Have you or anyone tried using the flag model that comes with TF2, instead of the Intel Briefcase?


no.


Personally, I wish they had MORE models that are not flags.

Capture the Prototype, Capture the data reel, capture the baby, ANYTHING besides CTF.

[Snipergen]

I agree. Would it be possible to make a custom map, and instead of the briefcase use another model? (one that you make yourself...like....a DOOMDEVICE :D )

[spaceweasels]

no.


Personally, I wish they had MORE models that are not flags.

Capture the Prototype, Capture the data reel, capture the baby, ANYTHING besides CTF.



In TFC, you were able to change the model associated with the flag. In one of my test maps for TFC, the flag was one of the ninja babes for HL. :)

[drpepper]

TEH flagroom exit room

http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/9520/badlandsclassic210018dn2.th.jpg (http://img503.imageshack.us/my.php?image=badlandsclassic210018dn2.jpg)

Another flagroom moneyshot
http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/4961/badlandsclassic210019pc1.th.jpg (http://img340.imageshack.us/my.php?image=badlandsclassic210019pc1.jpg)

the flag
http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/586/badlandsclassic210020zk2.th.jpg (http://img339.imageshack.us/my.php?image=badlandsclassic210020zk2.jpg)





:bowdown:

[Half-Life_Maniac]

I've a quesiton for you, Buster Charlie: As you're probably aware (I hope!) the intel is dropped when entering a respawn room (touching the func_respawnroom). Seeing as the respawn and the capture point are one and the same in Badlands, what are you doing to address this?

[Buster Charlie]

I've a quesiton for you, Buster Charlie: As you're probably aware (I hope!) the intel is dropped when entering a respawn room (touching the func_respawnroom). Seeing as the respawn and the capture point are one and the same in Badlands, what are you doing to address this?

I have not messed with gameplay mechanics too much as I've been focusing on getting a working version, I can always push back the spawn points to the computer room if need be.

[rubexcube]

BusterCharlie, first off I would like to thank you for building this map. I have been anticipating the day that someone would release a TF2 version of this classic ever since I found out that it would not be included in the list of retail maps. From reading your posts on the forum I am happy to see that you are keeping the map as true to the original as possible, it looks great! I wanted to ask when you think the map might be ready to start conducting some play tests?

[The Drizzle]

I am very intrested in finding out when this will be finished. We will be putting it up on our server once it goes final. Very nice work Buster

[Buster Charlie]

Well I work every day till the 25th, so I will try to get some done in those days but I probably can't get a whole lot done because of work. Right now, the lighting is still a mess, but I need to finish the displacements along the spiral stairs, I need to add a way to get up the canyon in the front of the base (no ladders) and I need to refine the doors and then stitch the two halfs of the maps together and then'll we'll have a playable beta.

[rubexcube]

You might consider making some sort of zig zag path in the rock face or even ledges you can hop back and forth across to make your way up.

[Buster Charlie]

You might consider making some sort of zig zag path in the rock face or even ledges you can hop back and forth across to make your way up.

Well for the center canyon I made a U turn rock stairs in a cave. For the front, I will try to disguise a ramp/staircase as a rock formation.

[Buster Charlie]

I'll try to make some more progress for Christmas, right now i'm too worn out, I did finish the spiral stair displacement and almost get all the doors working. I just need to finish the main spawn displacements, and the 'ladder' replacements.

Some shots to keep your hope alive.
http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/6582/badlandsclassic240005vc5.th.jpg (http://img299.imageshack.us/my.php?image=badlandsclassic240005vc5.jpg)

Flag room exit. You can see how I had to lower the floor a bit here to avoid the scout from being able to double jump into the flag room and bypass the entire base.

Top of spiral:
http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/3544/badlandsclassic240000my4.th.jpg (http://img184.imageshack.us/my.php?image=badlandsclassic240000my4.jpg)
you can see some of the reinforcement beams I added.

Bottom of stairs.
http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/4319/badlandsclassic240001bv1.th.jpg (http://img296.imageshack.us/my.php?image=badlandsclassic240001bv1.jpg)

I will try to get the seams in the displacement cleaned up, but there was no easy way to make this curved raising stairway seamless.

Elevator that will replace original ladder
http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/2186/badlandsclassic240003pf8.th.jpg (http://img295.imageshack.us/my.php?image=badlandsclassic240003pf8.jpg)

[Buster Charlie]

Top of canyon exit 2) I know it's ugly, I'll have to see if I can do better but It's gonna be a pain in the ass to do it out of displacements, and it's a very steep climb. I couldn't cut into the area near the base much without creating a trap.

http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/696/badlandsclassic250000ig7.th.jpg (http://img172.imageshack.us/my.php?image=badlandsclassic250000ig7.jpg)

Bottom of stairs.
http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/4188/badlandsclassic250001vj4.th.jpg (http://img170.imageshack.us/my.php?image=badlandsclassic250001vj4.jpg)
I guess the only thing else I could do is make the steps out of player no-clip and then make the visible rock stars them look more 'natural' but then that'll look weird with the players 'floating' up them if I don't do it right.

The first set of stairs. I had to cut into the side in order to still allow SG placement on that little mini cliff.

http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/3039/badlandsclassic250002uu8.th.jpg (http://img169.imageshack.us/my.php?image=badlandsclassic250002uu8.jpg)

Looking down.

http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/8242/badlandsclassic250003sm8.th.jpg (http://img165.imageshack.us/my.php?image=badlandsclassic250003sm8.jpg)


HO HO HO!

[Snockis]

Dude, those flights of steps are actually as I thought they would be, actually u made a better work of that part then I was hoping for, know that it's hard to walk up a level where it usually should be ladders, but again, great job.

Doesn't look to much alike a stairway.
and that elevator, well dude, have to say, don't think that valve can make it better :P

Merry Christmas dudes and Happy Holidays!

[Buster Charlie]

Okay map stiched together as one big map now. Need to be fixed before release:

Public doors will only open for team (oops)

capture point not added yet (oops)

Some lighting and displacement tweaking in connecting seam.

remove damage from elevator (I don't like it)

After that it should be ready for beta testing.

[ThatGuy]

After that it should be ready for beta testing.


I can't wait :D

[Buster Charlie]

I got a lot of fixes done, a couple tweaks still needed. I'm working on some hint brushes so the map wont run like ass on older machines, still need to fix some of the displacements but my focus right now is getting it playable for beta. I can make it look nice once we're sure it's fun.

[TheBladeRoden]

Roflmao

[drpepper]

poor buster charlie :(

[A Boojum Snark]

Keep going! Sounds like Valve is murdering badlands into a new creation, though thankfully not to the extent of Well (I hope), so you'll still be "classic" as you've intended.

[dirtyminuth]

Yes, don't let it discourage you. Your map is looking fantastic! I think Badlands is more suited to the CTF mechanic, remake or not. :)

[Buddikaman]

If its CP it will definatly be not as good. I really hate what they did to well and frankly dislike CP either way.

-Buddikaman-

[hacky]

Look on the bright side: your work has garnered you 9000 thread views. :)

[Logo]

It's amazing what a mention on shacknews will do :P.

[Paria]

this is one of the maps i've most been looking forward too regardless or whether valve are making a new version or not.

[phatal]

The map looks incredible! With all the drab maps currently, we have gotten bored on our server adding back old maps... lol. Please keep us updated on the new map release. Granted valve will release something similar I wouldn't hold my breath.

I noticed you said you making stairs where ladders should be. Why do this? You can make ladders in TF2, for reference check out cp_beach. I've played the map and the ladder works great.

[Snipergen]

...and the ladder works great.

No they dont you see a player warp up a wall thats not what you want if you are a mapper with eye for detail ;)

[A Boojum Snark]

I noticed you said you making stairs where ladders should be. Why do this? You can make ladders in TF2, for reference check out cp_beach. I've played the map and the ladder works great.
They are not real ladders, real ladders do not exist in the game code. Those are just very thin stairs so that you run up them quickly and vertically, try going down them and you'll see what I mean.

[rubexcube]

I like the way the stairs are looking. Could be a better way to go. The ladder in beach is a bit of a pain in the ass to navigate especially when you are a scout.

[Kirko]

u dont need all the signs. people new to the map will hardly even look at them. they just wonder around and will figure it out. its not a tough map to learn where stuff is. really like that ur making this map turn out great. badlands is one of my favorite maps for tfc. make sure to not jib us engies on the metal and building spots tho by the flag. i like the water in the valley too.

[dirtyminuth]

u dont need all the signs. people new to the map will hardly even look at them. they just wonder around and will figure it out. its not a tough map to learn where stuff is. really like that ur making this map turn out great. badlands is one of my favorite maps for tfc. make sure to not jib us engies on the metal and building spots tho by the flag. i like the water in the valley too.

Do not remove signage. I've found in Beta tests (ones where I stand right over the person's shoulder [Thank LANs]) that new people do use signs to navigate. Badlands was one of the largest TFC maps, both volume and alternate pathways considered, and it follows that it's one of the toughest to learn. Maybe you don't have a problem with it because it's "one of your favorite maps for tfc."

[Kirko]

Do not remove signage. I've found in Beta tests (ones where I stand right over the person's shoulder [Thank LANs]) that new people do use signs to navigate. Badlands was one of the largest TFC maps, both volume and alternate pathways considered, and it follows that it's one of the toughest to learn. Maybe you don't have a problem with it because it's "one of your favorite maps for tfc."

idk. i think dustbowl is hardest to learn. i mean badlands is just a base with a spiral, a bridge, and a valley. no really that hard.

[Squirrelly]

Love that canyon! ;)

[Pookiemccoo]

I just played the b2 version of this map. First of all, job well done!!!
A few minor remarks:
- I'd remove the health/ammo packs from the sniper nest overlooking the canyon, there is a resup nearby and without the health/ammo packs snipers are at least forced to retreat once in a while.
- In one of the resups you added 2 siderooms with no real purpose (other than confusing me ;) ). I think there is no reason to keep these.

Other than these remarks I think the map is absolutely fabulous :)

[Kirko]

I just played the b2 version of this map. First of all, job well done!!!
A few minor remarks:
- I'd remove the health/ammo packs from the sniper nest overlooking the canyon, there is a resup nearby and without the health/ammo packs snipers are at least forced to retreat once in a while.
- In one of the resups you added 2 siderooms with no real purpose (other than confusing me ;) ). I think there is no reason to keep these.

Other than these remarks I think the map is absolutely fabulous :)

those packs are there on the first one. and there is no real purpose of them because the other team cant even use them. but it helps so if there is a sniper who snipes there(never saw a sniper there playing the game its just a boring spot) to defend his side better without having to run back because by time he would of gotten back they would already be up there.

[Pookiemccoo]

those packs are there on the first one. and there is no real purpose of them because the other team cant even use them. but it helps so if there is a sniper who snipes there(never saw a sniper there playing the game its just a boring spot) to defend his side better without having to run back because by time he would of gotten back they would already be up there.

Are we talking about the same sniper nest? Because I remember picking up the powerups inside the enemy nest. I'm talking about the nest covering the 'back entrance' to the base. The resup is just around the corner for the players defending that spot, so there is ample time to run back and forth.

[Kirko]

Are we talking about the same sniper nest? Because I remember picking up the powerups inside the enemy nest. I'm talking about the nest covering the 'back entrance' to the base. The resup is just around the corner for the players defending that spot, so there is ample time to run back and forth.

but then the enemy doesnt have any healthpacks/ammo for them. they cant use that resupply.

[Pookiemccoo]

but then the enemy doesnt have any healthpacks/ammo for them. they cant use that resupply.

True. But I think adding the powerups to the lower sniperdeck (the one you have to crouch to get into) might do the trick :) That way enemy snipers can be chased away.

Another small error I found, it's possible to sticky jump on top of the canyon.
Screenshot (http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj259/Pookiemccoo/badlands.jpg) of me facing enemy sniper nests. Promptly got me called a cheater. I really didn't jump 'through' the map or walls or anything, but it's possible to sticky/rocket jump on top of the rock formations in the canyon and walk over them.

[Buster Charlie]

I just played the b2 version of this map. First of all, job well done!!!
A few minor remarks:
- I'd remove the health/ammo packs from the sniper nest overlooking the canyon, there is a resup nearby and without the health/ammo packs snipers are at least forced to retreat once in a while.
- In one of the resups you added 2 siderooms with no real purpose (other than confusing me ;) ). I think there is no reason to keep these.

Other than these remarks I think the map is absolutely fabulous :)

The main spawn is actually the side room, because in TF2 you can't bring the flag into the real spawn room. So I had to make a spawn area to keep the original cap area.

The rest is just for decoration, but thats why I put the barricade in the 'machinery room'

[Buster Charlie]

I did remove the ammopack from the sniper deck, I don't think that's too bad of a change. I also made all the packs small. I might remove the one from the flag exit also if that is a big exploit.

[Buster Charlie]

True. But I think adding the powerups to the lower sniperdeck (the one you have to crouch to get into) might do the trick :) That way enemy snipers can be chased away.

Another small error I found, it's possible to sticky jump on top of the canyon.
Screenshot (http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj259/Pookiemccoo/badlands.jpg) of me facing enemy sniper nests. Promptly got me called a cheater. I really didn't jump 'through' the map or walls or anything, but it's possible to sticky/rocket jump on top of the rock formations in the canyon and walk over them.

I'll try moving the health to the lower sniper deck, maybe people will use it more then?

When I compiled this map, I forgot to include the player clips so thats one of the reasons it is so buggy. ;)

[Buster Charlie]

*sign* Somewhere along the line my red base got some geometry offset. I'll have to splice in a older map file but I have made some good progress.

1) Fixed (hopefully) the "can't find the flag" issue.

2) Added more player clips (spiral stairs, stairs, etc)

3) tweaked the displacements and added displacements to spawn room.

[Buster Charlie]

Hammer ate my map file and my autosaves did not go back far enough.


Because of hammers instability, just trying to clone the bad parts of the base is resulting in it producing more buggy hamer errors.


SOOO.

I need to load up a older map of beta2, then implement all the changes I made in beta3 into it. This will take a while so I unfortunaly Beta3 wont be released tonight, it will be released Monday at the earliest as it will take several hours to redo the map from beta2, and I am in no mental state to do it right now.

[unknownzero]

i know what you mean about hammer, its happened twice to me, and Valve simply told me they don't directly support hammer. I miss sandbox's features of auto recovery, and crash recovery ( where you could save your map before it crashed ).

Anyways keep your hopes up, and remember displacements are your friends :D

[Fragimus_Max]

There's a well classic out there?

Two of them, in fact.

One that seems like a port, possibly from FF, and one that's more TF2 themed and not all that bad.

The port uses HL2 texturing, so it doesn't really feel right - but plays more like the original.

I, personally, would like to see more CTF maps.

[A Boojum Snark]

Well... I asked that 3 months ago. I knew about the one stolen from FF but don't count it, because even that is modified and thus not classic. (and it was stolen)

[Youme]

100th reply :D awesome map sorry to hear about your hammer problems, It sucks when things break. Is there a readily available original badlands vmf?

[Noggin]

You could VMEX/decompile the last version u compiled... does a pretty good job.

[hacky]

I'm at 44 different saves of ctf_truss... I would have to lose the last 10 or so of them to be set back more than a week. I have this habit of saving a new map vmf after every compile, but my compiles only take 12 minutes. Do what works for you, learn from losing your data. :D

[Aperture Scientist]

Hello world :D you seem not to have caught the new, but here it is

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=180349

OFFICIAL CTF_WELL IS OUT !!!!

couldnt turn off the caps, lots prolly understand me :')

But i'd like to know, since im new to this forum, apart from cp_warpath, what real good and equilibered maps have been adapted from TFC (or simply invented - as long as they're fun to play) ?
ofc i also know about castle, turbine n stuff, but i find only warpath is in the team fortress design and gameplay spirit.

[Buster Charlie]

Although reviews in this and other foums have been very positive, and I have had great fun in the one or two times I've actually played my map....

Nobody seems to in fact like badlands.

In Fact nobody wants to play badlands.

Every day I scan servers for anyone running the map, if I find a server running the map, it is always empty. When I find a server voting for the map with it on the list nobody wants to play it, and in fact calls it 'boring' and it 'sucks'. Etc.

No to sound like sour grapes but I don't see any point in wasting any more of my life finishing this map if nobody likes the map.

So unless I start seeing people actually play badlands I'm going to shelve it for now and focus on my original map plans.

I apologized to anyone who wanted to collaborate with me on other TFC map remakes but I cannot spend the rest of my life trying to give the community quality remakes if they will reject them because they are not 'valve' maps or not box deathmatch maps.

Fear not Crimson, I will still help you like I promised because even this setback will not make me go back on my word.

And to people who enjoyed the map, I hope you find this release enjoyable and it brings back fond memories of TFC.

I will continue to develop maps for TF2 in the hopes I can find something that people will find enjoyable. I realize however the average player couldn't care less how fucking ugly and stupid a map looks, judging what is popular, so I will focus on smaller maps and not worry about actually making them look like any semblance of effort was put into them.

[Noggin]

Buster, I completely emphasise with you on this.

Ill start by saying I think you have probly made the most polished, greatest looking map of all the customs - up there with Quarry and Turbine.

It is extremely frustrating to invest the amount of time in a map like I have done with ctf_powerhouse to not have it played on servers.
Valve releases ctf_well, which lets be honest, is pretty bad and its now in the standard rotations.

If anyone else had of released that it would have not gotten hosted or played, players would complain of it being too big, class biased etc.

Games players are a fickle bunch, youre likely to get flamed, praised or just ignored. Some people ask me whether im making another map...whats the point? Theres very little reward apart from the personal pleasure of being creative.

[Snipergen]

I could'nt agree more Noggin. People always whine if they are on a custom if they are losing or if they aren't playing dustbowl or 2fort with instant respawn. It's just a bunch of counterstrikers that have a new game...

[Vilepickle]

Sounds like you have a case of the orange_x downers. Welcome to TF2 :(

[Buster Charlie]

Hahah Counterstrike indeed!

What I find Ironic is millions of people wait 5 or 10 minutes to reach point A to B in World of Warcraft but bitch about waiting 15 seconds to spawn in TF2.

In counter strike you can wait minutes for the round to end also..


Oh Well.

Like I said I will still try and release a original map but honestly I don't understand..

How many 24/7 2fort / dustbowl /whatever servers do we need? I mean, I love the default valve maps but they've been done to death. I'll play ANY custom map as long as it has class switching in the spawn room and blockers to keep the enemy out of the spawn.

[drpepper]

Hahah Counterstrike indeed!

What I find Ironic is millions of people wait 5 or 10 minutes to reach point A to B in World of Warcraft but bitch about waiting 15 seconds to spawn in TF2.

In counter strike you can wait minutes for the round to end also..


Oh Well.

Like I said I will still try and release a original map but honestly I don't understand..

How many 24/7 2fort / dustbowl /whatever servers do we need? I mean, I love the default valve maps but they've been done to death. I'll play ANY custom map as long as it has class switching in the spawn room and blockers to keep the enemy out of the spawn.

These guys seem to like it :thumbup:

http://www.theville.org/viewtopic.php?t=5305

[Apex_]

To Buster and Noggin:

I'd just like to say that both of your maps have been standbys on my server. Powerhouse was one of the first quality custom maps I added to my server and will always be one of my favorites because of its looks and the excellent shutdown CTF gameplay I wish more maps would shoot for. It's sad but true to say most public servers will shy away from Powerhouse because it requires a bit more thinking than most vanilla CTF maps, so the large majority of the TF2 player base who are unwilling to learn the map and think outside the box will cast it aside. Regarding Badlands, I absolutely agree with the sentiments of my fellow mappers when they say it's one of the best maps out there right now. I was never a big TFC player and still appreciate the map, while the TFC veterans that frequent my server absolutely love it. Unfortunately few non-TFC players will think as I do and be open to a design that isn't as straightforward as say 2fort, where the cap point seems strangely placed and there are almost no obvious choke points a team could turtle around. To me, as both a server admin and a mapper, these qualities make the map stand out amongst even the best traditional CTF maps for being unique; I only wish everyone else would prefer something different and well made to the same old tired 2fort.

So, end ramble. I love both of these maps and it's really disheartening to see the public shun them because they're different and they're unwilling to try something new. You can always stop by the Apex-Games.net server (Noggin has :D) and see just how much some of us *do* care.

[Noggin]

Thanks Apex, mappers appreciate and rely on server owners.

Not to turn this thread into a bitch thread but youre right about the 24/7 Dustbowl/2fort servers. I just dont get it, especially as Im not a big fan of either map.

The TF2 forums got real excited by ctf_quarry when they saw the early screenshots, even with the expert polish that map has its virtually non existant on rotations.
Meanwhile, floodzone, lazytown, Mariokart and cp_orange_x are on a bunch of servers!

As a mapper I dont know what else there is to do. I, like Vilepickle, go on a promotional tour of the forums and hope for the interest.

[Haas]

yeah why make good maps if everbody is playing the crappy maps :S

[Apex_]

Thanks Apex, mappers appreciate and rely on server owners.

I only wish I had more servers to run quality maps on. Sadly I barely scrape by with donations for a single server, and pay the rest out of pocket.

Not to turn this thread into a bitch thread but youre right about the 24/7 Dustbowl/2fort servers. I just dont get it, especially as Im not a big fan of either map.

Neither am I. I don't like CP as a game mode in general, so Dustbowl has never been on my list of favorite maps. 2fort is a good map, don't get me wrong, but with Valve's constant focus on CP maps they more or less left CTF hanging and their single offering got old before the beta was even finished.

The TF2 forums got real excited by ctf_quarry when they saw the early screenshots, even with the expert polish that map has its virtually non existant on rotations.
Meanwhile, floodzone, lazytown, Mariokart and cp_orange_x are on a bunch of servers!

I've been told by some regular players that it's rare to find a server that regularly reviews their map cycle like I do (or struggle with constant requests for surf maps, UGH!). I think that's kind of sad, because with any game the map selection is the most important part of your server, and what draws players more than anything. It's not that hard for me as an admin to hit up a couple of map sites once a week for new releases, and it only takes maybe ten minutes out of my day to add/remove maps from the rotation. A real shame to see so many servers set up and let run like wind-up toys, with no real effort to improve or even maintain them.

On a related note it's that very same disinterest in new maps that has me on the fence about my own CTF map project. It's bad enough I tend to be highly indecisive and leave things unfinished, but with a stunning lack of interest like this it's a wonder any talented mappers have the drive to release their work. On the other hand, I think about those maps that shine through the fog of orange/surf/etc and how much fun I have playing them on my server and hope that some day I can finish a project that will have the same effect on someone else.

As a mapper I dont know what else there is to do. I, like Vilepickle, go on a promotional tour of the forums and hope for the interest.

I'd be willing to help if you need. I try to mention some of my favorite maps whenever I venture abroad to public servers, hoping someone will take notice. I really don't want TF2 to become another Counterstrike where Dustbowl and 2fort are the analog to dust2 and office.

[Snipergen]

I just played your map for the first time.

1. Its beautifull. Really nice.

2. Too narrow paths. I can't blame you because you ported it exactly like I think. But I dont like the map. And buster, this is nothing against you since you ported it, but a personal matter. The map is soo beautifull and tf2 ish, but the map structure is just confusing, the intel is on a retarded place imho. I dunno why the tfc badlands was so awesome than?
Again, not aimed to you dude. You did a great job, its just me that doesnt like the map structure so much.

[Noggin]

Thanks Apex, altho I dont really know if theres a solution, its down to the players.

Im not sure Steamworks will solve anything for the fickleness and attention span of the average player.

Ive suggested for a while a centralised section of Steam that accommodates content creators where server runners can be notified of new content and updates, theres already too many "TF2 map collection" sites.

As for Buster, I think its worth finishing off Badlands with a bit of tweaking for TF2 classes then before starting a map just see if it takes hold.

[Buster Charlie]

I just played your map for the first time.

1. Its beautifull. Really nice.

2. Too narrow paths. I can't blame you because you ported it exactly like I think. But I dont like the map. And buster, this is nothing against you since you ported it, but a personal matter. The map is soo beautifull and tf2 ish, but the map structure is just confusing, the intel is on a retarded place imho. I dunno why the tfc badlands was so awesome than?
Again, not aimed to you dude. You did a great job, its just me that doesnt like the map structure so much.


Thats fine. I'm not offended by people who dislike the design of badlands insofar that the original badlands has it's flaws. I made the map to be a faithful port because I wanted it as a 'gift' to the community, to play a old classic (warts and all) because valve shafted them on CTF maps.

[3_stooges_geo]

we play it once in a while on our server,the biggest complaints from players are that they dont know where to go and once they get there and get the flag,they dont know where to take it.

[Buster Charlie]

we play it once in a while on our server,the biggest complaints from players are that they dont know where to go and once they get there and get the flag,they dont know where to take it.


Well I can't help it if players are mentally handicapped.

I have a huge glowing capture point hologram that every player has to run through to even leave the spawn room.
http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/2356/ctfbadlandsclassicb3e00ku5.th.jpg (http://img82.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ctfbadlandsclassicb3e00ku5.jpg)

I have a big caution stripe surrounding the capture point
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/728/ctfbadlandsclassicb3e00oh7.th.jpg (http://img341.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ctfbadlandsclassicb3e00oh7.jpg)
I have no less than 3 capture point signs written on the capture point

I have a team colored spotlight pointing at the capture point.


ALL of these you HAVE to see because you spawn in a room where the only exit is a door facing the capture point. You have no choice but to see it. And every time you die, you have no choice to see it unless by some chance of fate you hit the secondary respawn.




Barring that.

EVERY POSSIBLE entrance to the base has a sign on the floor with a arrow pointing to the capture point.
http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/7199/ctfbadlandsclassicb3e00ix8.th.jpg (http://img339.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ctfbadlandsclassicb3e00ix8.jpg)
Everywhere you go, at every juncture you could possibly hit from the outside of the base you see a sign with a arrow on the floor saying capture point.

So I'm sorry if people with fetal alcohol syndrom or down syndrom do not know where to capture the flag.

I felt that beta2 this was a huge problem because I didn't have all of the above, but now it's the players problem not mine because I can't solve illiteracy or mental retardation with good map design.
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/7084/ctfbadlandsclassicb3e00jj9.th.jpg (http://img99.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ctfbadlandsclassicb3e00jj9.jpg)

[drpepper]

Well I can't help it if players are mentally handicapped.

I have a huge glowing capture point hologram that every player has to run through to even leave the spawn room.

I have a big caution stripe surrounding the capture point

I have no less than 3 capture point signs written on the capture point

I have a team colored spotlight pointing at the capture point.


ALL of these you HAVE to see because you spawn in a room where the only exit is a door facing the capture point. You have no choice but to see it. And every time you die, you have no choice to see it unless by some chance of fate you hit the secondary respawn.




Barring that.

EVERY POSSIBLE entrance to the base has a sign on the floor with a arrow pointing to the capture point.

Everywhere you go, at every juncture you could possibly hit from the outside of the base you see a sign with a arrow on the floor saying capture point.

So I'm sorry if people with fetal alcohol syndrom or down syndrom do not know where to capture the flag.

I felt that beta2 this was a huge problem because I didn't have all of the above, but now it's the players problem not mine because I can't solve illiteracy or mental retardation with good map design.

:lol:

[Buster Charlie]

I'm sorry if the above describes you but honestly if I grabbed random people off the street and told them to find the capture point vs actualy capturing the enemy flag in combat I doubt many would find capturing the flag harder than finding the capture point.


http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/849/ctfbadlandsclassicb3e00zq2.th.jpg (http://img159.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ctfbadlandsclassicb3e00zq2.jpg)
http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/3481/ctfbadlandsclassicb3e00kq6.th.jpg (http://img292.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ctfbadlandsclassicb3e00kq6.jpg)
http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/6317/ctfbadlandsclassicb3e00dp5.th.jpg (http://img201.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ctfbadlandsclassicb3e00dp5.jpg)
http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/6816/ctfbadlandsclassicb3e00sc5.th.jpg (http://img91.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ctfbadlandsclassicb3e00sc5.jpg)

[Buster Charlie]

I don't mean to spam this but I feel I need to back up my statements, that I am not using hyperbole.

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/4255/ctfbadlandsclassicb3e00qy9.th.jpg (http://img222.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ctfbadlandsclassicb3e00qy9.jpg)
http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/5889/ctfbadlandsclassicb3e00ec8.th.jpg (http://img81.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ctfbadlandsclassicb3e00ec8.jpg)
http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/543/ctfbadlandsclassicb3e00tr2.th.jpg (http://img112.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ctfbadlandsclassicb3e00tr2.jpg)
http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/639/ctfbadlandsclassicb3e00ti2.th.jpg (http://img91.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ctfbadlandsclassicb3e00ti2.jpg)

I have a couple more I can post but i'll save everyone the download unless they want.



If I had a magic wand and could make some glowing lines that flowed along the ground to show the flag carrier exactly how to cap the flag I would.

[drpepper]

I don't mean to spam this but I feel I need to back up my statements, that I am not using hyperbole.

I have a couple more I can post but i'll save everyone the download unless they want.



If I had a magic wand and could make some glowing lines that flowed along the ground to show the flag carrier exactly how to cap the flag I would.

1unit brush on the floor with a red texture leading to cap point D:
no im just kidding.

i played the map last night, and its so freakin close to the original, its amazing. you did an amazing job with it and i doubt valve can do any better, it being cp and all.

[3_stooges_geo]

relax,i was just giving you some of the feedback from some of the players that played it for the first time.
i myself like the map and think theres plenty of directions,but i also played it in TFC,it took a quick run through to remember it all.
most players judge whether they like a custom map in the first 2 minutes of play and if they get lost,thats the end,they dont like the map and dont want to play it anymore.
half the TF2 players would never survive if they tried TFC now.

[Buster Charlie]

relax,i was just giving you some of the feedback from some of the players that played it for the first time.
i myself like the map and think theres plenty of directions,but i also played it in TFC,it took a quick run through to remember it all.
most players judge whether they like a custom map in the first 2 minutes of play and if they get lost,thats the end,they dont like the map and dont want to play it anymore.
half the TF2 players would never survive if they tried TFC now.

I'm not worked up, just pointing out that I am only going to sink so low in a REMAKE of a TFC map. Either you like the idea of a TFC remake or it hurts your beain.

Similarly my next map will be 100% original and I'll try to make it as intuitive as possible as not to confuse new players yet still allow people who can read and write to enjoy it also.

[Noggin]

Haha, I couldnt agree more. People get lost in my map, so I added a map overview in the SPAWN and signs... yet they still complain.

How do these people get around in real life? Oh yeah, Google Maps!

[Narkissus]

Or mapquest!

[Apex_]

Haha, I couldnt agree more. People get lost in my map, so I added a map overview in the SPAWN and signs... yet they still complain.

How do these people get around in real life? Oh yeah, Google Maps!

You should try being the admin of a server running it :P I have to explain the map to most of the people that join unless they've been on the server before. It's not just Powerhouse or Badlands either, anything remotely different (yaaaargh/vikings, Well remakes, generally anything where the cap point and flag aren't the same room...) seems to totally confuse your average player.

Kind of sad really, I don't understand how people can play the same scenario over and over. Playing the same map all the time just sucks, and doubly so if the map wasn't that great to start with.

[Youme]

I've never had people get lost and complain on any of my maps, but then I never seem to create enough alternate routs in them.

I remember I've played cp_science for about 5 full games now, still can only just navigate from CP to CP. I usually get on great with new maps, a quick wizz around on spectate usually gets me to grips with where I have to go but cp_science still has me baffled (well done shmitz!)

[Youme]

Just played it, and to be fair, I can see why you are getting new comers getting lost, there are several quite large areas that have no reason for being there. Maps with more than one route out of resupply tend to confuse people mroe than other maps. The map is quite large and ther are I feel, too many routes through. It takes a little bit too long to get from intel to capture point, even as a scout un hindered by other players. Most of your signs seem to be outside of the main field of view which will add to newbie confusion.
It looks beautiful, but its too large, has too much choise and is doomed to confuse newbs.

[Buster Charlie]

Just played it, and to be fair, I can see why you are getting new comers getting lost, there are several quite large areas that have no reason for being there. Maps with more than one route out of resupply tend to confuse people mroe than other maps. The map is quite large and ther are I feel, too many routes through. It takes a little bit too long to get from intel to capture point, even as a scout un hindered by other players. Most of your signs seem to be outside of the main field of view which will add to newbie confusion.
It looks beautiful, but its too large, has too much choise and is doomed to confuse newbs.

Well noobs be confused. Because that's just the way badlands was and nobody has a problem in TFC.

Possibly because all the down syndrome retards were playing CS instead of TFC.

[Buddikaman]

I dont get why people are complaining about the layout of old tfc maps, they were excellent maps. I think what it is alot of people playing TF2 dont get the strategy of the game, as most people play CP, which is less about strategy and teamwork, and more about bum rushing(yawn). CTF is were its at, and with 2fort being the only CTF map(minus well, which sucks hard), people just run around deathmatch style. I exclusevly play 2fort, and 95% of the people ive played with refuse to use strategy/teamwork, ive gotten really bored of the game because of it.

Badlands was one of the more intricate maps for TFC, the reason it has two main paths into the base is to give teams a chance to break through tough one sided defenses, or for spys to infiltrate into the base. Its a map meant for alot of players, due to its slightly larger size.

Noobs be confused.

-Buddikaman-

[Buster Charlie]

Thats what I love about badlands. The one good game I had on my remake (due to actually having 20+ players) was great. You had 3 spies sneaking all over the place, you had soldiers making frontal rushes 3 at a time, sometimes with medic. You had a few engineers. Pyros runing around the cramped areas. Less heavies because of the map size but to be honest I dont see a lot of heavies anyway. Of course the snipers love the main sniping zones.

Really what makes the map great to me IS the complexity, you can't turtle without a LOT of engineers and even then your defense is spread thin. You have to flow and push hard. You have to adapt to the enemy if they decide to break through the canyon instead of the main gate.

Really I think people need to give it a shot on a full server and not judge it based on small games with only a few players.

[rubexcube]

Buster,

I have been so busy with work and the other things in my life I had not had a chance to get on here and read what the reaction to the map has been. Now that I have I am so disappointed in the luke warm reaction it has gotten. I have been running it on my server since it came out and I just love it, I even upped the number of slots I have on my server so I could host a better game for it. To tell you the truth I have not been able to get it to catch on like I hoped. I have been pushing it on my clan and we have had some great games on it so far (even found a few bugs). I just don’t understand why the community is not going nuts over this. I’m sorry to hear that you will not be continuing work on it but you did a fantastic job on the first try, and any bugs I found I can live with. I hold hope that as TF2 matures that this map will catch on. If you are ever looking for a group of people to play with on your map let me know and I can round the [SS] gang up!

[Scotland Tom]

It's not a bad map at all. I think it's quite well done and it only took me about 5-10 minutes to figure it out. (The signage helps immensely) My only issue is that, for the TF2 gamestyle, it is a bit large and it does take a while to get across the map. That's not your fault, it's just a difference in the gameplay between TFC and TF2. Because it's so large this map actually works far better on a 32 player server than a 24. With some work, I think a modified version with less space between the red and blu bases would be excellent.

[Apex_]

It's not a bad map at all. I think it's quite well done and it only took me about 5-10 minutes to figure it out. (The signage helps immensely) My only issue is that, for the TF2 gamestyle, it is a bit large and it does take a while to get across the map. That's not your fault, it's just a difference in the gameplay between TFC and TF2. Because it's so large this map actually works far better on a 32 player server than a 24. With some work, I think a modified version with less space between the red and blu bases would be excellent.

I host this on an 18-player server and we have excellent games on it. More doesn't always mean better, especially when it comes to sneaking around in the canyons or through the sewers. Honestly, more players on a map with multiple routes such as Badlands only slows the game down. You have to make a decision between defending one route or another, and can't always watch your back. However, I do think shortening the map sometime down the road (and making the tunnels larger) would be a good start to "TF2-izing" the map if anyone were to do it. I think Badlands works better than the other TFC remakes though, and it certainly gets more play time on my server than Well2 or 2fort.

[Scotland Tom]

Oh I realize more doesn't always mean better. Dustbowl, Hydro and 2Fort are all maps that were designed for 24 players, and the difference between a 24 player and 32 player server on those maps is astounding. In this case, however, the map is quite big and I find that with fewer players it takes longer and longer find or return to the action after respawning.

[rubexcube]

That is Blasphemy! Don't change the size of the map it is how it always was unique as a TFC and will be unique as a TF2 map. In TFC it seemed like you had get sick of years of playing 2fort before people caught onto the genius of Badlands. I would agree that the tunnel from the canyon needs a little bug fix because of the getting hung up going in and out especially when carrying the intel.

[Colt Seavers]

I've just stuck this on the custom map lab server and boy does it look good 8-)

I really can't wait to get some peeps on to see how it plays. If the gameplay matches the appearance this would make it onto the main teamplay server for the next rotation (rotations change fridays) ;)

I think your ladder solution is really neat - works very well. i'll have some more constructive comments after a play through!

I'm going to idel on the map while i get a shower and hope some peeps jump on as soon as they've had their breakfast :P

[ryodoan]

This is one of my favorite custom maps out right now, and I primarily play engineer.

Teleporters actually mean something due to the size, the exit from the intel room is a great place to put a sentry and there are a couple places to put it in that room to keep people guessing, and this map would be amazing in 16vs16.

My favorite part is after my sentry is up in the exit room and i see someone start for the intel, I follow them up to the intel, then when they are slowly edging around the exit corner to get a few shots in on my sentry I just run up and wrench them to death.

[FaTony]

Edit: The last post in this thread was well over 6 months ago. While we're all sad to see a promising work go the way of the dodo, I must ask that you refrain from raising the dead :) Immortal-D