TF2Maps.net Mapping Contest #5: The Art Pass Contest

[zpqrei]

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/458143/tf2maps/thefifthcontesttitleimage.png

It's the ultimate accolade for a custom mapper; to have your work in an official TF2 map. Well, TF2Maps.net and Valve Software have teamed up to give ONE lucky mapper that opportunity. We've got our hands on an unfinished Valve map, and we need YOU to detail it! Think you're up to the challenge?

The winner, decided by the TF2 team at Valve, will have their map included in the next TF2 update! It's a 3 CP attack and defend map, similar to Gorge. You have total creative liberty with this, so we'd love to see what YOU can do!



The contest will end on Saturday September 25th 2010 at 11:00am UTC (http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?month=9&day=25&year=2010&hour=11&min=00&sec=0&p1=0).

Rules

The layout of the map must remain the same. YES you can change props. YES you can edit the gameplay slightly, it just needs to be obviously this map, no making new routes. You have a LOT of creative liberty, use it!
The map must be optimized to the point where it can be released to the world.
Custom content is allowed, but you must have permission from the content creator, because, should you win, the files would need to be officially acquired by Valve. The original author of the content must have source files to prove that they made it. This means you need to ask the content creators, not just give credit!
Mapping collaborations are not allowed in any form, as it presents a significant disadvantage for everyone who works alone. You are allowed to use an artist to create specific props/textures for your detailing, but the actual map detail must be done by you.
You are not allowed to advertise anything in your map, so no using those TF2Maps.net posters, Novint ones, or ads for other any communities.
Your map must be named in this fashion: artpass_yourusername.bsp and have a thread in the Contest Entries forum.


Here are some basic guiding principles for detailing your map:
Try to be unique. We are expecting a lot of people to enter; make sure you stand out from the crowd (but not in a bad way!)
Stick to the TF2 art style, but don't be afraid to try something new!
For optimization, read this (http://www.nodraw.net/2009/12/optimization-in-source-a-practical-demonstration/).
For some theory on standards in Valve maps, read this (http://www.nodraw.net/2010/01/a-little-research-on-standards/).
To see how Valve does things, read this (http://www.nodraw.net/2010/01/interview-iikka/), this (http://www.tf2maps.net/forums/showthread.php?t=5196) or this (http://forums.tf2maps.net/showthread.php?t=7375).


Judgement Procedure

Eligibility: Maps will be checked and disqualified when the contest submission deadline ends if they do not meet the rules.

Judging Categories

Creativity - Author's use of new or existing models, textures, sounds, in interesting or unique ways within the confines of the existing map layout.
Composition - Visually how well the map looks with all of its elements in place. Lighting, appropriate texture choices, colour composition, etc.
Technical - The map should be optimized for shipping and not bogged down in so much detail that only a few select users can run it.


Submission Procedure

Please note that once the maps are checked, they will be sent off to Valve. No changes can be made after this submission is made.

This time once the submission thread is up and the deadline set you will have until that deadline to the second with no exceptions. If you have any issues with your submission, if you need to fix it, contact me (zpqrei) and we'll see how we can fix your issue. It'll be done on a case-by-case basis, up to a week after the contest ends.

Prizes

The grand prize is of course, your map being included in TF2. More prizes may be added at a later date.

[Engineer]

Oh boy!
I'm so doing this! http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1517451/Smileys/evil-grin.png

[JoshuaC]

Was the map really made by valve? The layout seems.. poor..

[grazr]

I'm not a fan of the massive walls everywhere...

Do we have to leave those huge over hanging ceilings? :/

[Cerious]

So this is the contest flame was talking about/leaking?

[Ten19]

Well, this'll certainly get me back into Hammer.

[Knight-Errant]

I may attempt to at least try. Don't know if I will get anything done.

[Lss40]

Are the props there for reference there should be an obstacle, or do we have to keep them there? And can we add solid models on other places?

[JoshuaC]

Long sight lines.. Long sight lines everywhere..

[Trotim]

On the TF2.com Rules page, For some theory on standards in Valve maps, read this tutorial by Acegikmo. links to Mangys optimization tutorial.

Apart from that, good job, zpq!

[Mr. P. Kiwi]

Sounds like the contest for me!
Edit: where do I download the map?

[heyyou]

Are the props there for reference there should be an obstacle, or do we have to keep them there? And can we add solid models on other places?

This is really my only question.

[Engineer]

Umm yeah. Where is the download?

[JoshuaC]

http://artpass.tf2maps.net/download/artpass_valvebase.zip

The layout really is awful.

[Lancey]

When you say no layout modifications, that means no adding cover props like the hydro barriers?

[Assassinator]

I'm gonna give it a try but the hardest part will be the optimization :(
I don't know how to do it very well but I will learn it before Setember 25th :P

[Groovy Pants]

Quick question: Are we allowed to move/add/replace props?

[Widdenlow]

Cool hehe i probably won't win because i'm an amateur mapper but im going to give it a shot anyway... where do we post the finished maps in the end?

[nik]

can we make it night time?

[green bandit]

I'm in!

[zpqrei]

The basic layout of the map must remain the same, you can change all of the geometry! You want to add a barrier? Will it cause the map's gameplay to break? No? You're allowed to put it in!

[Lancey]

Are there limits on the number of entries you can produce?

[grazr]

You should probably stick with 1 and make it awesome.

But i guess if you have no life you can make 2 or so.

[JoshuaC]

The basic layout of the map must remain the same, you can change all of the geometry! You want to add a barrier? Will it cause the map's gameplay to break? No? You're allowed to put it in!

Might want to add that into the rules. I can't imagine the map being all that playable in it's current form.

[Engineer]

Aaargh... It's so hard to texture those huge walls. So am I allowed to make them smaller?

EDIT: hah! No need to apply alpha for blend textures. :D

[drp]

Might want to add that into the rules. I can't imagine the map being all that playable in it's current form.
you dont have to worry about playability. just detail.

[Grim Tuesday]

<----------------Is going to win!

For the first contest, I actually know how to do hammer!
This might put a damper on your logo, ckd :P

Can we displace the ground, to make it less flat?

[JoshuaC]

you dont have to worry about playability. just detail.

Valve will fix the map before they make it public, right? If this is to become the next official map, I'd sure hope it would play well.

[Jonah]

oh yes please
I'm so entering this

[The Asylum]

So.... is there a link to the vtf?

[Leminnes]

Valve will fix the map before they make it public, right? If this is to become the next official map, I'd sure hope it would play well.

The layout is fine. I'm unsure what you find so horrendous about it.

[grazr]

I agree with Josh, the map layout looks disgusting.

Heights over 450+ HU?

I know there are some new heights in PLR hightower, but still.

[Grim Tuesday]

The heights are like canvas. Void! START MAKING POSTERS!

[EArkham]

There going to be a playtest of the map as is?

You can keep the layout the same but still address problem areas with clever prop placement to break up LOS, etc.

Kep

[Lazore]

Hammer crashed every time i tried to launch it. Refreshed the sdk content, still didnt work.

Gonna re install sdk now.

[windFall]

Well, I won't win, but this could be fun. I'll do it.

And I really don't see why you all dislike the layout, looks fine to me.

[grazr]

I seriously hope this has been tested and approved. Even if Valve's play testers have a tendency to over look serious design flaws.

[EArkham]

..well, there's a spot by blue spawn where a sentry could hose people not just as they leave spawn, but as they spawn, so... I'm less than confident about the playability here. Heh.

Kep

[Jimmy]

Im not too fond of the layout but meh, may as well detail it. Any-one whos played Bedrock will know I need some practice :P

[Ninjilla]

Going to A looks rather locked down, only 2 major sightlines as far as I can tell.

So who else's first order of business was to texture those displaced floors with some dirt? :p

[drp]

again. layout is irrelevant. focus on making it look great.

[Terr]

It may be useful to address any requirements on file sizes. It doesn't matter as much as with a custom map, but I can also easily imagine people going overboard...

It also may be handy to have some "acceptable examples" of ways you can edit the geometry of the map.

[The Political Gamer]

again. layout is irrelevant. focus on making it look great.Does not mean we can't/wont bitch about it. :P

[Icarus]

There is no reasonable way you're going to beat valve's +100MB maps.

[Lazore]

So i have just reinstalled sdk, refreshed the sdk content.
But still, every time i try to load the vmf, hammer just closes with no error or anything.

[Ninjilla]

layout is important if they dont want us altering it AND its going to be an official map :(

[Leminnes]

layout is important if they dont want us altering it AND its going to be an official map :(

Not really. The contest is to detail it, not to complain about it.

[Zwiffle]

Well this isn't exactly what I was expecting. Not sure if I like this contest or not. I'll at least take a look, but I was hoping it 'd be focused more on game play than looks. Good luck to everyone though.

[JoshuaC]

again. layout is irrelevant. focus on making it look great.

You can dress up a turd all you want. In the end, it's still going to be a piece of shit.

I don't find it very motivating to be working on a map that seems to have little thought put into how it actually plays.

[DaBeatzProject]

Seriously, what's with all the hate already?

Be glad there is a new contest instead! And be glad you make a chance to make an official map!

If you don't like the layout, so be it, don't compete in the contest and don't play the map when it's official. Both EU and US servers are running the map and I think it'd be better to play it before going all "thisjustsucksvalvefails".
Also, valve made watchtower official, JoshuaC.

[zpqrei]

Simple. Don't enter then?

[Icarus]

I think it plays swell. I like it better than Gorge, at least.

[Botervloot]

I can't wait to see what you guys are going to make. I'm not going to start with this; I'll be wiped away by the more veteran mappers.

[JoshuaC]

Seriously, what's with all the hate already?

Be glad there is a new contest instead! And be glad you make a chance to make an official map!

If you don't like the layout, so be it, don't compete in the contest and don't play the map when it's official. Both EU and US servers are running the map and I think it'd be better to play it before going all "thisjustsucksvalvefails".
Also, valve made watchtower official, JoshuaC.

I think it's perfectly fine to question the layout of a map that's about to go official. You guys sure have had fun ripping my map apart since it's gone official.

[Porkchop]

So we can make this any theme, original or existing? Sounds neat, can't wait to see what people come up with.

I think I'll enter this as well. Even if I don't win, I know I'll get quite a bit out of this, and I find giving life to maps is always fun. Layouts have always been the thing to halt me in making maps, but now that I have a layout done, I can see how well I can truly do in the detailing department.

Good luck to everyone else entering!

Edit: The way I see this, I'm less concerned about how it plays, and see this more as a "Give life to this map, let us worry about the gameplay" type of deal. I'm positive Valve will fix what they have to concerning balance, which is why they told us not to alter anything that affects the gameplay.

[Santyloco]

Will totally give it a shot, but i have 2 questions:

1- Can we add/edit props or we have to stick to the ones on the map?
2- It is allowed to make more than 1 entry?

[VIVA LA NWO]

Also, valve made watchtower official, JoshuaC.

I agree. It did go official, it's in the gcf and everything.

[drp]

You can dress up a turd all you want. In the end, it's still going to be a piece of shit.

I don't find it very motivating to be working on a map that seems to have little thought put into how it actually plays.
thats perfectly fine. feel free to not enter.

[what would jesus do?]

the only real problem (for me to complain about) is that one gate from blus spawn leads directly to gameplay space, meaning one clumsy teammember can allow a crit demo to throw a sticky where you respawn, so i wanted to place a spawnroom behind the current one to avoid this.
Also, a few prop areas like the random junk outside said gate, and the mine cart on a with the small window, allowed to change?
y/n ?

love the contest though, detailings always been my favourite, and not being able to bring an actual map to detailing phase means I finally get to do it hoorah :D

[NightHawK]

I'm excited!

[Porkchop]

I'm not sure why some of you are complaining about how it plays, or how it will play.

It's a detailing contest.

Nothing said this will be the final layout to go in game, just that the winner will go official. The winning map will be theirs to modify to their hearts content, just like every other map that's gone official.

[JoshuaC]

thats perfectly fine. feel free to not enter.

It's not that I don't want to enter, it's just that the map feels like it was made in a day to appease a request.

[Cerious]

It's just that the map feels like it was made in a day to appease a request.

Are you fucking kidding me?

[Deity Link]

I'll give it a try.

[Reactor]

It's not that I don't want to enter, it's just that the map feels like it was made in a day to appease a request.

You have a point, the map kind of does look like a days work.

Anyways, I have a question, can you move/add brushes that they added if it doesn't' change the total layout? This map is like a big square.

[Leminnes]

Edit: Sorry, DrPepper. The dude is just bothering me.

[n30n]

Great new contest! Some examples of acceptable changes would be helpful. And link to map in first post.

[JoshuaC]

I just... don't understand why you're posting anymore. Just stop.

I was thinking this was a discussion thread. My mistake.

[IrishTaxIDriver]

Stand back guys I totally got this.

[drp]

It's not that I don't want to enter, it's just that the map feels like it was made in a day to appease a request.
I'm not sure what Valve's development cycle is on creating maps internally. Maybe they detail then tinker with the layout. Sure, we might not think thats optimal but it probably works for them.

[NovaSilisko]

What's the point of entering when one of the big shots who always wins contests wins anyway?

[Zwiffle]

The point is to become one of those 'big shots.'

[Leminnes]

Some people *coughTPGcough* are posting their threads for their unfinished maps right now. Would you (DrP) suggest doing that or do you not care?

[JoshuaC]

Some people *coughTPGcough* are posting their threads for their unfinished maps right now. Would you (DrP) suggest doing that or do you not care?

Isn't that the point of the contest?

[VIVA LA NWO]

I just... don't understand why you're posting anymore. Just stop.

I agree. JoshuaC, please get out with your opinions.

[Reactor]

So.. <.< No one can answer my questions? ;3

[Leminnes]

Isn't that the point of the contest?

Just seems a bit early. I guess thinking about it, it doesn't matter much. I would guess it'd probably be best to have something to show first, though, before one makes a thread.


I agree. JoshuaC, please get out with your opinions.

DrP edited that post for a reason. I'd appreciate it if you didn't quote it. >_>

[Lazore]

Hammer crashed every time i tried to launch it. Refreshed the sdk content, still didnt work.

Gonna re install sdk now.

Still need help here guys.

[NovaSilisko]

Addendum:

This is a really, really bad idea.

At least with the other major contests you ended up with a bunch of complete, unique maps.

This time you just end up with dozens of stylistical variations on THE SAME MAP, the ones that don't win become completely useless. It's not like the minicontests where it was just a small area of detail, this is an entire map.

[Reactor]

Addendum:

This is a really, really bad idea.

At least with the other major contests you ended up with a bunch of complete, unique maps.

This time you just end up with dozens of stylistical variations on THE SAME MAP, the ones that don't win become completely useless. It's not like the minicontests where it was just a small area of detail, this is an entire map.

I have to agree. There's one person that will win, everyone should at least get a badge or something in-game if they sent in a valid entry. (Valid as in, made by them, followed the rules, et cetera.)

[J4CK8]

I also agree with NovaSilosko. I will still enter but I will know that I have a 99.9% chance of not winning, my map becoming pointless along with everyone elses bar one, and would cause demotivation :(

They should've made it on a slightly smaller scale such as splitting the contset up into several 'groups'. One for each cap and spawn areas. At least that way less 'wasted' material and effort.

Also, can we use the swamp pack?

[Leminnes]

I have to agree. There's one person that will win, everyone should at least get a badge or something in-game if they sent in a valid entry. (Valid as in, made by them, followed the rules, et cetera.)

I imagine that's up to the discretion of Valve.

[Reactor]

So can no one answer my questions? :S

You have a point, the map kind of does look like a days work.

Anyways, I have a question, can you move/add brushes that they added if it doesn't' change the total layout? This map is like a big square.

I'm stuck in this part and can't decide what to do.

[Deity Link]

Cool, apparently Valve mappers have already set the alpha of the ground on the first part. Noticed this when applying a a blendgroundtograss texture to the floor.

[Chilly]

I haven't posted in a while, but this contest interests me quite a bit. Not as a mapper, but as someone that can give decent feedback. :) A few things I think...

1. The first post reads "YES you can edit the gameplay slightly, it just needs to be obviously this map, no making new routes." Correct me if I'm wrong, but to me that means that if there's a minor gameplay adjustment necessary in an area, like adding a few additional brushes, that it's not going to be a big deal. It sounds like you have to keep the overall layout, routes, and areas the same, but if you need to use brushes to make some LOS blocks or alter the displacements it won't be a problem.

2. To the people complaining about it... if you really don't like it, then don't compete. It's really not that complex. I'm sure Valve has playtested internally before releasing this, since it'd be pretty stupid otherwise. Can we just give them the benefit of the doubt? Complaining achieves nothing.

3. The people that "always win" deserve to win because their work is of such high quality. If you want your work to win then make sure it's of that quality as well. People like me are happy to give feedback, as long as you're willing to listen (not saying you have to do what we say, but rather that you take our advice seriously).

4. Every other contest has given participant badges, correct? There's nothing noting that this will be any different, but if people are competing just to get a badge then they're probably not going to win anyway. :)

5. I'm happy to provide feedback. I'll post in the threads that interest me the most, but if someone really wants feedback and isn't getting any then feel free to send me a PM.

6. Why so serious? I think the best maps are from people that come up with a fun idea and then have fun with it. I think it's clear that a unique idea will win, so if your map starts looking like Dustbowl or Gravel Pit you're probably best rethinking it. :)

/Mr Obvious signing off

[GordonFrohman]

I want to take a part in this contest, but I have some questions:

Can I slightly change the map? For example put to one side this cart?
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_W-tg6eBXNJw/TEC9rYroHEI/AAAAAAAAAVM/THA2pJxAWls/s640/artpass_valvebase0000.jpg

Or Can I make a hole in a roof?
And can I make some changes, which don't affect on gameplay? (Adding a little non-shootable holes into the walls) Or adding a new room which is unreachable (like in ctf_2fort on the right side of intels), blocked with unbreakable glass?

[eyefork]

I'ma make a good map.

[alecom]

Texture replace tool go 8)

[Chilly]

Hopefully someone does an orange version... just because. ;)

/ducks

[eyefork]

Also, I call dibs on the alpine theme.

[Terr]

Also, I call dibs on the alpine theme.

I call dibs on the tf2 theme. You guys all need to do orange or crazy colors now. Buwahahhah.

[Loc_n_lol]

And can I make some changes, which don't affect on gameplay? (Adding a little non-shootable holes into the walls) Or adding a new room which is unreachable (like in ctf_2fort on the right side of intels), blocked with unbreakable glass?


That falls under detailing.

Sounds like a very interesting contest, in the principle, but I'm not sure I like the base map we have to work on. I mean it's not terrible, but it seems nothing special either and very open in some places. :bored:
Plus, a others have said, most non-winning entries will become useless, a couple might become alternatives, like the oh-so-hated 2fort remakes that get more playtime than most of the original maps released on this site...

Question : can we adjust heights/distances, if the layout of routes remains the same ?

[l33tz0rx]

I have a question: Can we add wacky stuff? For example, if this were for some odd reason taking place in outer space, could I add a doughnut shop? Heck, if it were taking place on earth, could I add a doughnut shop or something wacky?

[Dr. Kukri]

I'm just thinking of all the stuff I can do; creative overflow. Can't decide exactly how to do this one, but i'll give it my best shot with some ideas for the basic bones first, then work on it from there :)

[FeartheMango]

I've got Dibs on Thunder Mountain (esque) Theme.

[EArkham]

Dibs on wintery night Egypt also-it's-a-swamp-on-fire theme.

Kep

[J4CK8]

I'm already going for a sawmil/swamp theme if we can use the swamp pack.

[Dr. Kukri]

Shotgun (I made a funny) on Underground/Volcano style :D

[ColonelBD]

Awesome. I've been mapping for a while but I always fail at the actual building (I either get side-tracked or run into some technical diffuculties) so I might actually have a chance at this. Downloading now.

[Prestige]

i dont like the gamemode, and im not a fan of the layout, but i need some practice detailing so i might enter.

[nsgy]

Can we Add/ Remove medkits and ammopacks?

[Grim Tuesday]

Can we Add/ Remove medkits and ammopacks?

no. It changes gameplay, and has nothing to do with detailing.

EDIT: Hereby calling the space station theme.

[Jonah]

dibs on snowdrift theme because it's cool

[NovaSilisko]

As stated in another thread...

http://i31.tinypic.com/xp28ae.jpg

Y'all don't have a chance.

[honeymustard]

Doesn't having all the ground displacements as power 4 cause problems? Seems like there's a very high triangle density.

[Swordz]

Nice contest. i'm not good at making maps, but i can detail.

[Sca.wingShade]

Although the basic layout is not to be modified, Can some brushes/geometry be modified slightly, moved, added or anything, like in case there is a problem with the original design?

[dnelson1996]

Wait, how do I submit?

[Prestige]

I'm not sure if this is the place to post it, but chat is being swarmed by people being linked from the blog. kind of annoying.

[l33tz0rx]

I'm still wondering if I can add something wacky.

[Aly]

Zpq did it. :(

[Loc_n_lol]

I'm still wondering if I can add something wacky.

No, you cannot put porn in your map.
:P

[Grim Tuesday]

No, you cannot put porn in your map.
:P

Oh god, a proxy texture of porn.


Or even worse, a censored version of Goatese, in a blend texture with some other shock site.


Oh the possibilities.

[punishment]

Just to clarify, are we allowed to change the ambiance (f/e the skybox)?

Also, would adding areas where Engineers can't build change the level too much, or is that also kosher?

[Grim Tuesday]

Just to clarify, are we allowed to change the ambiance (f/e the skybox)?

Also, would adding areas where Engineers can't build change the level too much, or is that also kosher?

Yes to skybox/lighting


For your second question, do you mean detail rooms?

[l33tz0rx]

No, you cannot put porn in your map.
:P

Get your mind out of the gutter!

I'm talking about like, a cat hanging from the wall or something stupid like that.

[Terr]

I'm talking about like, a cat hanging from the wall or something stupid like that.

Only if you think it is something Valve would like to make official.

I'm guessing the answer is "no" in most cases.

[l33tz0rx]

Only if you think it is something Valve would like to make official.

I'm guessing the answer is "no" in most cases.

Well, I wasn't serious about the cat thing, I put a frog wearing a blue hardhat in front of my blu base. Picture example HERE (http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/7733/artpassl33tz0rx0000.jpg)

[Goombac]

Hope it hasn't been asked already, but what are the rules on using tf2map's swamp themed objects?

[BrainZ]

Are we required to give WIP screenshots every now and then like in the Polycount contest?

[grazr]

no. It changes gameplay, and has nothing to do with detailing.

EDIT: Hereby calling the space station theme.

There are ammo patches without health or ammo. Explain this.

[l33tz0rx]

There are ammo patches without health or ammo. Explain this.

There are? Pics please.

[Sgt_Dippy]

The layout is a piece of SHIT and I think I'm going to have to make huge modifications with it to make this even remotely playable. Although I got an Idea for those huge walls...

[BagOfChips]

map just crashes hammer gj valve

now hammer doesn't work any more, some nonsense abou it not being able to load filesystemopendialog.dll

[Loc_n_lol]

Hope it hasn't been asked already, but what are the rules on using tf2map's swamp themed objects?

Yes you can, it's been answered already. ;)

The layout is a piece of SHIT and I think I'm going to have to make huge modifications with it to make this even remotely playable. Although I got an Idea for those huge walls...

I dunno... Upon closer examination I've come to think it's not bad, actually. Yeah, that's probably not the best layout Valve has made, but it's also possibly better than anything I'll ever do. :P
Once most people get used to the layout, learn the engie spots, sniper spots, shortcuts and all, I think it'll play well.

[punishment]

For your second question, do you mean detail rooms?

I meant using a func_nobuild entity to block off certain areas. Not that I was going to do that, but just in case I needed to.

[Porkchop]

The layout is a piece of SHIT and I think I'm going to have to make huge modifications with it to make this even remotely playable. Although I got an Idea for those huge walls...

Except this is a detailing contest, not a "best gameplay" contest. One thing about being a level designer is to work with what you've been given, not to bitch and moan because YOU don't like it. Valve's detailing team doesn't complain because the layout team does something they dislike, they work with it and adapt.

[Loc_n_lol]

Except this is a detailing contest, not a "best gameplay" contest.


Well, there are reasons to be concerned, I mean if the layout is truly crappy (and I don't think it is), then Valve would still have to make this map official and it would be forever associated with the winner's name, although most players would hate it ?

[StarvinCannibal]

So, as far as the map name goes, do I need to put my username or my nickname?

Because my username is starving_cannibal, but my nickname is Starving Cannibal. Minor difference, but still, which one? The username, I assume?

[Porkchop]

Well, there are reasons to be concerned, I mean if the layout is truly crappy (and I don't think it is), then Valve would still have to make this map official and it would be forever associated with the winner's name, although most players would hate it ?

Valve can still easily fix things up. They never said this was the final layout, only to detail and optimize it as if it were ready to ship. It also makes it a hell of a lot easier for them to edit if it's nice and neat.

Basically the point of this contest, as I see it, is to find something good looking and hopefully original, hence the line "you get a chance to show us how much better at detailing maps than we are".

[Loc_n_lol]

Hmmmyeahok I see what you mean, it just seems like nonsense to me to make layout changes after a full art pass is done but if Valve is willing to... :p

[DJive]

Hmmmm

OMG CRAPPY LAYOUT!!11

Its a DETAILING contest why do you care?

Layout is so bad..

Contest is not for the layout..

man what a bad layout

the contest is NOT FOR THE LAYOUT

stupid valve what a terrible layout

omfg... forget the layout. the contest is not for the layout.

what a bad contest the layout is so bad QQ

People why is this so extremely hard? The layout could be a F'ing circle with a giant hole int he middle. Does it matter? NO.

This is a DETAILING contest. its not how well you can see a layout is not good.
Detailing contest only worry about detailing..detaildetaildetail

<3 you all but its just very sad to see people take whats an amazing offer and then bitch about it when YOU are not following instructions.

[NovaSilisko]

Hmmmm



Its a DETAILING contest why do you care?



Contest is not for the layout..



the contest is NOT FOR THE LAYOUT



omfg... forget the layout. the contest is not for the layout.



People why is this so extremely hard? The layout could be a F'ing circle with a giant hole int he middle. Does it matter? NO.

This is a DETAILING contest. its not how well you can see a layout is not good.
Detailing contest only worry about detailing..detaildetaildetail

<3 you all but its just very sad to see people take whats an amazing offer and then bitch about it when YOU are not following instructions.

You're kiiinda missing the point.

If the layout is shit, do they want to become known for detailing a shit map? There's a reason bad layouts never get detailed(except by some)

[DJive]

You're kiiinda missing the point.

If the layout is shit, do they want to become known for detailing a shit map? There's a reason bad layouts never get detailed(except by some)

Wouldn't though. Valve did the layout not the detail mapper.

[NovaSilisko]

Wouldn't though. Valve did the layout not the detail mapper.

I'm just saying. If the map itself plays really bad, nobody will play it and it will end up being wasted - see how hydro has ended up to most players?

[DJive]

I'm just saying. If the map itself plays really bad, nobody will play it and it will end up being wasted - see how hydro has ended up to most players?

Does that take in anyway away from the fact you you out detailed hundreds of other mappers to get such a feature recognized by valve?

What we have is truly a great opportunity.

[The Political Gamer]

1st and 2nd are kinda eh. But last is very interesting with how vertical things get.

[Lancey]

1st and 2nd are kinda eh. But last is very interesting with how vertical things get.

Things become so vertical that you can't possibly hope to have any sort of combat. But yes, the layout is irrelevant. Detail it without changing it, for that is truly the challenge.

[Rikka]

As a non-mapper all this contest means to me is that you guys won't be producing as many maps for me to test. So I encourage you all to ignore this contest.

I also encourage you all to be as selfish as I am and ignore, and also try your best. Its excellent to have this kind of opportunity.

[grazr]

People care about the layout because at the end of the day this map will get played. Whether the contest itself ignores that fact or not.

It's not like our mini detail contests where there's no expectation of a working game mode or well balanced layout.

People don't want their work associated with something bad.

Saying that, however, upon further inspection the scales arn't horrificly bad, just bad. Most of the height scales conform with gravelpit height scales, if not a little greater, and in a more linear fashion (which is where i have a problem).

I just really hope the map plays better than it looks like it does.

[Tech]

/me starts to bug zpq when's the next contest :D

Anyways looking forward to see all those awesome details we're getting.

[NovaSilisko]

As a non-mapper all this contest means to me is that you guys won't be producing as many maps for me to test. So I encourage you all to ignore this contest.

I also encourage you all to be as selfish as I am and ignore, and also try your best. Its excellent to have this kind of opportunity.

You can test stonewall with me!

[DaBeatzProject]

I just really hope the map plays better than it looks like it does.

There is the problem. Seriously, how can you say 'THE LAYOUT IS HORRIBLE' when you haven't even PLAYED the map. (they were more than an hour on both US and EU server, and you can always play the map with bots).

And if you don't want your work associated with something bad, don't enter the contest.

[Dark]

there are 2 bad sightliness that i found in playing, i hope removing those will be a welcomed edit

[FaTony]

Looking through hammer I found that valve already started some detailing. Will Valve submit their contest entry? I would love to see it finished.

[Jimmy]

Looking through hammer I found that valve already started some detailing. Will Valve submit their contest entry? I would love to see it finished.

To start with it was semi-detailed. Zpq then helped to un-detail it for the contest, after he stole it from corey peters(see comic) :P

[FaTony]

Poor Corey then. I wish to see what he did/will do with that.

[Acumen]

sometimes i think we're a bunch of fellow germans complaining about everything :D
where the answer was already posted, "don't like it, don't compete in it"
i think this is a brilliant possibility for lots of great entries, also for the novice mappers.

but people should be forced to open threads only when they have pictures already. sucks to browse through threads with only 3 out of 10 having actual progress to share
*germanmode over*

[Swordz]

Do we need to add those area portal things for optimization? I can't learn how to do it.

[Aly]

It would be preffered.

[Nitram]

Anyone else bothered about that house (in func_detail) next to blue spawn which is not on grid? :thumbdown:

[The Political Gamer]

If it were a big complex building I would complain, but its not.

[Nutomic]

Quick question:

Would this be considered okay, or does it change gameplay too much already? (the selected brush)

http://forums.tf2maps.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=2231&stc=1&d=1279369812

[l33tz0rx]

In my eyes, all you did was add an unaccessible ledge, so I don't think so, Nutomic

[re1wind]

I'm definitely joining this.

[mantari]

One thing about being a level designer is to work with what you've been given, not to bitch and moan because YOU don't like it. Valve's detailing team doesn't complain because the layout team does something they dislike, they work with it and adapt.
This explains far more than you may, at first, realize.

[zpqrei]

This explains far more than you may, at first, realize.

I beg to differ. This is not have Valve do things. They do it like we do :P

[Géza!]

Holy shit. A contest where I may have the slightest of chance?

Considering how the part of mapping I'm good enough at is visuals... Will be good practice, definitely.

[DJive]

Anyone else bothered about that house (in func_detail) next to blue spawn which is not on grid? :thumbdown:

LOL that was the first thing i noticed and was like "Grrrrrrrrrr"

[Trotim]

There is the problem. Seriously, how can you say 'THE LAYOUT IS HORRIBLE' when you haven't even PLAYED the map. (they were more than an hour on both US and EU server, and you can always play the map with bots).

And if you don't want your work associated with something bad, don't enter the contest.
Well unfortunately those hours of playtesting further reinforced the fact the layout isn't all that great. :S

[midget31394]

Well unfortunately those hours of playtesting further reinforced the fact the layout isn't all that great. :S

I quite enjoyed it, I found it better than Gorge as well :x

[DrIndianaJones]

Hello all,

Just signed up today to start working on this.


Good luck to everyone! :)


~ Indy

[Engineer]

I have decided that I will not compete with you guys. Good luck everyone who is entering. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1517451/Smileys/victory.png

[Tech]

Currently i am 50/50, one side of me wants to enter while another one doesn't D:

[Mr. Happy]

Seems I'm going to have to create an entirely new environment theme, been wanting to bring TF2 action to the hills and valley's of <deleted> for years now.

And about this whole "layout sucks thing" I have noticed that the vast majority of mappers spend too much time in Hammer or at things like "school" or "work" or "life" or whatever and consequently have absolutely no in-game skill and wouldn't recognize a fun and balanced map if it slapped them over the head with a rainbow trout.

[Jimmy]

Seems I'm going to have to create an entirely new environment theme, been wanting to bring TF2 action to the hills and valley's of <deleted> for years now.

And about this whole "layout sucks thing" I have noticed that the vast majority of mappers spend too much time in Hammer or at things like "school" or "work" or "life" or whatever and consequently have absolutely no in-game skill and wouldn't recognize a fun and balanced map if it slapped them over the head with a rainbow trout.

I so want to just reply saying: "umad" but I wont. Many of us mappers are great tf2 players, take flame and nineaxis for example, just 2 of the many great players here. Im one of the better If I do say so myself but I take offense at that. Just because we map and you've played on our server with us for at most a few hours probably with many people not from our community that you make these assumptions.

[Completely]

This should be fun. Im definately giving this a shot.

[Mr. Happy]

just kidding jimmy, thought the silly mirc reference would make that clear, guess not

[Chilly]

So I played the map through once as each class each direction. There are a few things that could be better, but overall I think it'll play better than most people are expecting. A few things I noted:

1. As it is right now if blue gets out of their spawn they should be able to roll the rest of the map pretty easily. A few detail/LOS changes can help this. For helping blue exit spawn easier...

a. For the sniper windows overlooking the blue spawn, don't open up the one that Valve currently has blocked. If you get multiple snipers looking at the spawn it could be a mess.

b. Try protecting that side entrance as much as possible. If you can block red out of that entire side building and back area, do so. Would check the rules on this, since it's not a major route change but goes a bit beyond detailing.

c. I think having the blue spawn elevated should help them push out a bit easier, so keep that in mind when adding your displacements. Make sure nades will roll downhill toward the key enemy locations here.

3. A is set up decent. There's a big advantage for blue once they get here, since most of the sentry areas are exposed. The high ledge is the only X factor, since that type of height overlooking a CP isn't common on other maps. If it doesn't play well you can always add a tall prop like a tree to help cover the CP. Overall this point SHOULD be easiest to capture for blue.

4. If blue captures A, they should quickly cap B because of the distance. Also, since red would have most of their stuff set up on A from setup, it's likely most of their team and sentries are wiped out after A is capped. Do everything possible to help B here...

a. Leave that long sniper view from the C paths. Other than the large amount of metal it's the best thing to help the defense here.

b. If you can make the health and metal more easily accessible or even just more visible from red's side, it should help. Just a prop on the the blue side of the health/metal should be enough.

c. If it still doesn't balance well, an option is adding cover from the high area between A and B, as suggested for A.

d. Try making some protected sentry locations in that area. Some creative displacements that roll nades away from protected spots could help, as could a prop that overhangs and makes it harder to drop in stickies.

5. C is interesting. I don't like the death pit, but it should make capturing a lot more difficult which is a good thing on the final CP on a map. Since C's spawn is so close and because of that death pit, the area should be heavily balanced towards C anyway. Try keeping it that way. If you need to switch it around, consider changing the death pit to water (if allowed) or add a railing around to help prevent airblast deaths.

6. Be mindful of certain double jump locations. There's a few really fun ones (high roof of B to the ledge) and they make for some really unique paths through the map.

7. The red spawn is easily camped by a single demoman. You might want to protect one of the doorways with more cover if possible.

I personally think this map will be a lot of fun. Only playtesting will show for sure, but I can see this being used for 6v6 competitive teams or fun highlander games. I definitely think it'll fail for 32 man instant respawn servers, but overall it's a good enough layout that people will play it if it looks nice.

Hope this helps someone. :)

[Cynick]

Just throwing this out there: Every bloody displacement in the entire map is power 4. Not sure if this is still as problematic as it used to be, but something to keep in mind.

[MacD11]

where does one submit their progress thread to?

its for a freind

[StarvinCannibal]

So, when they say we need to ask creators of custom content if we can use their stuff in our map, does that custom content include textures, sounds and models from a (now official) community map like Hightower or Hoodoo? Or only custom content that's been made by a community designer who HAS NOT gone official in any way.

I'd rather not use custom stuff that I need to ask permission for, because I don't know who made what, so it would be a big hassle. Please help me out here!

[A Boojum Snark]

Anything that is included in the game is owned by Valve. The authors sell the rights off.

[Mr. Happy]

Hightower was a custom map?

So many...overlapping brushes...misused grids...offgrid buildings...brushes extending meaninglessly...might have to rebuild nearly the entire shell to get a nice clean template

[JoshuaC]

It's not.

[StarvinCannibal]

It's not.

It's not custom? My mistake then. Thought I heard that it was.

[fubarFX]

So many...overlapping brushes...misused grids...offgrid buildings...brushes extending meaninglessly...might have to rebuild nearly the entire shell to get a nice clean template
cleaning the .vmf took me about 8 hours T_T

[Retroid]

I think I'm just glad this is an official contest, I much prefer the idea doing something official and not having to slap on all those advertising stuff (as well as they were made).

Edit: it also looks a bit like the first map I blocked out lol (Although more finished.)

[Cameron:D]

I just realised that almost every face is lightmap scale of 64. No wonder a lot of my lighting was looking retarded.

[sniprpenguin]

So my big question is:

I was not liking how close Blu's spawns where to the exits, so I made a shell of a room behind the building and was hoping to place the spawns in there. Too much of a change?

[DJive]

So my big question is:

I was not liking how close Blu's spawns where to the exits, so I made a shell of a room behind the building and was hoping to place the spawns in there. Too much of a change?

Anything in the spawn does not effect gameplay. I would say its ok.

[Dr. Spud]

Just be careful you don't modify the spawns, and all of a sudden have players spawning 40 feet further from the exits. I'd imagine there's some wiggle room for the info_spawn placements, but the run distance should still be taken into consideration.

[cakeman]

I would like some clarification on the 'The layout of the map must remain the same' rule. I'm having a bit of an OCD attack (not really) and I would like to recreate the layout in my own style by building over it and then taking out the original pieces. Would this be out of bounds according to the rules? Can I nudge things to slightly different grid locations for the sake of uniformity? Also, am I allowed to do things like redesign the boundary walls and fence area outside BLU spawn, and do things like change window opening dimensions if I feel I need to? These are just examples. Sorry if this all sounds redundant, I just wanted to know for sure before I committed myself to the project.

[absurdistof]

Wow I can see this has whipped up a lot of attention :P

I'm bittersweet about this. On one hand, the contest still remains fresh with the requirements, and I have to say it sounds pretty awesome. On the other hand, I'm not making a map :(
On a mutated third hand Valve is involved, which is amazing! :D
But on a fourth hand acquired from an amputation accident, I have never detailed and finished a map :mellow:

[Darksoul]

I am still confused on what I am allowed to change/add/remove.

Can I change the limits of the map?
I think not. The players must remain in the original confined space. (Am I wrong?)

Can I edit the dimension of the stairs? make them wider, cut into several ramps?

Can I make doors, corridors wider?

The pit at the end can be made wider/deeper?
(I am obsessed with wide stuff *wink*)

Can I add props to break LOS?

Can I change and/or props?

Can I add structures to change the way zones are divided, and to improve performance?

Can I remove existing displacements?

Or does the art pass is limited to adding only func_detail brushes, props for lighting, textures, effects and...lighting?

[Aly]

Can I change the limits of the map?
I'd say yes, but only in places it doesn't matter much and not by a lot, like to the left of blue spawn.

Can I edit the dimension of the stairs? make them wider, cut into several ramps?
I would think so.

Can I make doors, corridors wider?
I would think so as well, but don't make a small hallway massive.

The pit at the end can be made wider/deeper?
I'm not sure about wider, probably not, but deeper, sure.

Can I add props to break LOS?
I'm not sure about this one. It changes the gameplay/sightlines, but I don't know.

Can I change and/or props?
Of course!

Can I add structures to change the way zones are divided, and to improve performance?
Possibly, would they play fairly the same? Does it only alter the layout very slightly?

Can I remove existing displacements?
I should think so.

[Leminnes]

Random question: Any idea who designed this map in particular? I'm just curious. :P

[RaVaGe]

A interim employee ?

[Psy]

Random question: Any idea who designed this map in particular? I'm just curious. :P

Corey Peters, I believe.

[A Boojum Snark]

It was Doug Wood from what zpq said.

[Leminnes]

It was Doug Wood from what zpq said.

Oh? Has he done anything else? The People page on Valve's website says he works on Half Life (and it seems he's been with them for a while.)

[Swordz]

I hope they give something to everyone that tried...

[Mr. Happy]

To all those questioning what you can and cannot do to the layout, I would suggest not worrying about changes that are within a 10-20% threshold. For example, if you need to move a doorway 16-32 units and then widen a wall by 32 units to make things line up properly with your changes, don't worry about it. Remember, it is IMPOSSIBLE to detail a map, especially when making the architecture nice, not to change things around like this. Think not in terms of keeping the dimensions the same everywhere but keeping the gameplay the same. For example, if a sentry location is moved back 64 units but it can still see just as far (if it's looking at a wall for example) that is not a layout change as it does not affect gameplay.

It is rare and specialized situations affecting only the most skilled players of only a few classes when 8 - 32 units difference changes a tactic. (demoman quickly popping around corners to throw stickies for example). Heck, even the overhangs in CP C and A-building can be mostly removed without affecting gameplay.

Still, I am curious, what if we added something like an overhang with support beams coming down off it that divides a path into two without truly adding new areas? Would this be a layout change? I would think not. Would adding a few soldier/demoman perches be a layout change? I would think not. Would changing the slope of the highly-graded clip brush be a layout change? I would think not. The majority of the changes people are asking about would not change the flow or balance of the map as a whole and would only make minor changes to individual firefights in some specialized circumstances.

The meaning of "layout" is not "shape of areas and routes" but rather "type and character of situations produced by the areas and routes."

Think back on your own maps and the way they evolved through alpha, beta, etc. You might, in alpha, have a building rooftop where an engy can build a sentry, and then in beta you might add a duct on top of it which would block/change exactly were sentries can be built, but it does not change that sentries can be built there.

Everytime you make a change you question, compile and run around the level and see if it FEELS different, if there is a major change in what you feel capable of DOING as each class, then that is a layout change.

You don't JUST want to texture and add models and sounds, the first step in detailing a level is ARCHITECTURE, and you can't do that without making some changes. Look at that massive wall dividing the starting area from the A-B route for example: if you just texture that, you have not detailed it.

If the shell of a level remains bland then all the textures and props in the world will not save you.

[zpqrei]

THE BASIC GAMEFLOW MUST BE THE SAME. FEEL FREE TO MOVE THINGS AROUND, LOWER ROOFS, AND ADD/REMOVE MINOR COVER. THE MAP MUST BE RECOGNIZABLE. THE RULES ARE A LOT MORE LENIENT THAN A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK THEY ARE.

That is all.

[l33tz0rx]

THE BASIC GAMEFLOW MUST BE THE SAME. FEEL FREE TO MOVE THINGS AROUND, LOWER ROOFS, AND ADD/REMOVE MINOR COVER. THE MAP MUST BE RECOGNIZABLE. THE RULES ARE A LOT MORE LENIENT THAN A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK THEY ARE.

That is all.

So I can put a flaming train?

[zpqrei]

So I can put a flaming train?

Dammit you can if you want to.

[l33tz0rx]

Dammit you can if you want to.

Yay XD

[(,.o.,)]

I think by the end of the contest, there's going to be a payload version more played then the official CP one.

[Nineaxis]

After looking at a couple of threads I felt compelled to rant about the subject of what is and what is not a layout change despite being out of town and on a phone, but it looks like Mr. Happy and zpqrei beat me to it.

If you're counting units your change is small enough to pass. Changing a doorway to fit a prop is a small change. Changing the dimensions of a room is a small change. Adding a prop in a gameplay heavy area is a small change. Adding a doorway or new path is major.

Basically, this contest is about being creative with what you are given. Like Happy said, you aren't going to impress anyone by slapping in some textures, props, and soundscapes. Do something new. Creative. Fancy.

Stop worrying about little nuances with the wording of the rules and MAP.

[Swordz]

How do you add bots to the map? I mean, the ones that move. Is that possible?

[Grim Tuesday]

How do you add bots to the map? I mean, the ones that move. Is that possible?

Do you mean for playtesting?
Put these into the console, in sequence:

sv_cheats 1
nav_generate
(the map will reload)
tf_bot_add (#)


If your talking about those silly ones in thunder mt, then just decompile the VMF, and copy them.

Nine, I would like to note that adding a prop like the dump truck, or the hydro barrier in a gameplay area would be considered a major change.

Question: Is making skill-jumps/rocket jump ledges considered major changes?

[Flame]

who cares. make your map. quit talking about it

[Swordz]

Do you mean for playtesting?
Put these into the console, in sequence:

sv_cheats 1
nav_generate
(the map will reload)
tf_bot_add (#)


If your talking about those silly ones in thunder mt, then just decompile the VMF, and copy them.

Nine, I would like to note that adding a prop like the dump truck, or the hydro barrier in a gameplay area would be considered a major change.

Question: Is making skill-jumps/rocket jump ledges considered major changes?

I was talking about the ones that play with you. Worked, thanks

[cornontheCoD]

who cares. make your map. quit talking about it

I think people are worried that they would be immediately disqualified if they made any changes to gameplay, no matter how good the detailing is. I know I was. Now that it's cleared up, I can relax a little.

[Boylee]

who cares. make your map. quit talking about it

:lol:
We might as well remove these forums then, people can just upload maps to fpsbanana instead , and NOT TALK ABOUT THEM. :P

[Terr]

One thing about being a level designer is to work with what you've been given, not to bitch and moan because YOU don't like it. Valve's detailing team doesn't complain because the layout team does something they dislike, they work with it and adapt.

Is this "from the source" and expresses Valve's corporate culture? Because it's not unknown for people "further along the assembly line" for software etc. to give some pushback in terms of design.

[The Political Gamer]

THE BASIC GAMEFLOW MUST BE THE SAME. FEEL FREE TO MOVE THINGS AROUND, LOWER ROOFS, AND ADD/REMOVE MINOR COVER. THE MAP MUST BE RECOGNIZABLE. THE RULES ARE A LOT MORE LENIENT THAN A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK THEY ARE.

That is all.
Also this: http://forums.tf2maps.net/showthread.php?p=180687#post180687

[Snacks]

I just kind of expected rules that would be clearer based on the amount of time this has been in the works.

[rawr901]

Where is the download ...

[owly-oop]

When the contest is over, will the top10 entries be ranked? I don't like thiscontest so much, because everyone's (except the winner) work will go to waste. The lease that could be done is acknowledgment of the other good entries existing. Atleast in the other contests if you didn't win, you had a map people could still play.

[JoshuaC]

Finally played the map today. Ugh, all my complaints feel justified. It's gonna take a talented mapper to dig this trash pile out of the sewer and make it decent.

[Little Dude]

Who made the custom sky box textures with the swamp theme cause I would like to use sky_night_03 inside me map.

[Grim Tuesday]

All swamp theme material is free for use in the contest.

[Little Dude]

I know that we can't change the layout but can we change the brushes that define the outer boundries such as the skybox brushes?

[The Political Gamer]

I think this is already DQ'd... http://forums.tf2maps.net/showthread.php?t=14312

[ethankarnopp]

I just got done speaking to Acumen and he and I are offering our services to anyone that needs some custom models done. For a frame of reference here's our past two collabs


tractor:
http://forums.tf2maps.net/showthread.php?t=10971

electrogun:
http://forums.tf2maps.net/showthread.php?t=11146

PM me if interested!

[grazr]

I might be interested in a larger model of the skybox hay barrel. Should i just make a request thread in the model sub forum and expect you to take a peek?

[ethankarnopp]

We made a thread in the request forum, anyone that is interested take note of the criterium and suggest accordingly!

http://forums.tf2maps.net/showthread.php?p=181559

Cheers!

[Swordz]

The map is full of glitches lol. you can put sticky bombs at the setup doors and the right door on the blu spawn doesn't open if two people touches it at the same time (if you're playing with bots you're screwed because they will not move haha)

[Lizard]

(if you're playing with bots you're screwed because they will not move haha)
tupe nav_generate in console ...

[grazr]

That's not what he's saying. The doors wont open because they get locked when more than 2 players enter the trigger_multiple brush volume, so the bots can't move through them and subsequently get stuck/can't progress; they're not smart enough to understand the glitch and avoid it.

[Swordz]

tupe nav_generate in console ...

I mean, the door don't open, and instead of one of the bots walk back, they just stand there and wait until the door opens (that will never happen)

it's what grazr said

[Lizard]

A ! ok now i know :)

[Loc_n_lol]

Question : There's a drop down shortcut that allows red to go to A without having to go all the way around B & stuff. This shortcut is closed by a gate after BLU caps A. Would it be an acceptable gameplay change to replace the dropdown by a one-way door while maintaining the lockdown after cap A ?

[grazr]

You probably could do that. I mean that gates already there and the difference in gameplay would probably be miniscule since only FaN scouts, demo's and soldiers could exploit it, and only really as they cap the point if it got rolled at that.

I actually assumed it was a one way door without checking the I/O >.>

[Draco18s]

Scale and Your Map|Stairs and Your Map|Roofs and Your Map|Immersion and Your Map|Layout and Your A/D Map|Base Facades and Your Map

Man. Love those articles. Wish I'd had them a year ago when I started!

I had so many issues with scale, as I'd used the Gordon model to try and gauge height and ended up with cramped spaces. Scaling up the map afterwards turned things into goop, though I've managed to (mostly?) fix it (I still find stay off-grid edges).

High/Low ground the map still has an issue with, but I may not be able to fix that a whole lot, I was using a preexisting (fictional) building layout, but the second round has plenty of ups and downs, as it takes place on the roof of the building--of course that has an issue with sight lines! Good thing the second round still has access to some internal space for alternate routes.

Have some issues with major/minor blue exist (first round more notable), as they probably have too many options, but for any given CP there's probably one major and two minor.

Stairs I have down pretty well (got to add some clip brushes still, but...) though I do have a non-standard design (an actual spiral stair case; two actually in different places) but they're still pretty minor routes. Clip brushing them is not going to be easy! They're a little tricky to navigate at first, but after a few plays they're not too bad.

Immersion is my biggest issue; there just aren't any props that fit the them I'd like to have, and I'm a terrible modeler and have no desire to tolerate XSI. In general my biggest issue is finding props and textures that already exist, as you have to know it by name ("barrier" might not get some good sight blocking cover because it might be named "metal_fence_obstacle"). Or, god forbid, a blue colored wood-slat texture. We need a good tagged database of all the props that exist.

This contest is good practice though.

[Cheese]

Whew I'm kinda late but I think I can make it. :P

Question: Can I add brushes for cosmetical purposes?

[Loc_n_lol]

So long as your brush doesn't wall off an entire route/area/line of sight, yes, yes, you should.

[Little Dude]

I have a problem with the map and I wanted to know if anyone else is experiencing this problem. After I had created a skybox and run the map, as I stood on the very top of Cap B I can see a shaded part of the map. But as I get closer, it fades away and the skybox bottom shows.

Heres a link to a picture of what I am talking about.

http://s262.photobucket.com/albums/ii96/LittleD256/Mapping/?action=view&current=artpass_littledude_v120002.jpg

[Draco18s]

Coworker found this collection of color photos (http://blogs.denverpost.com/captured/2010/07/26/captured-america-in-color-from-1939-1943/) from 1939-1943.

TF2 seems to have that same feel to it in terms of architecture style, thought maybe people could draw some inspiration from it.

[grazr]

Everything about those photo's makes me glad i was born in the 21st century :O

Also: http://denverpost.slideshowpro.com/albums/001/496/album-125171/cache/color068.sJPG_950_2000_0_75_0_50_50.sJPG?128050996 7

Delboy Trotter!!!

[Technoman]

Question. I made it so that C point retracts into the wall until B is captured. This means RED has to go around the pit though it doesn't really affect the shortest path to A/B. Can I do that or do I need to put a grate on top of the pit until C extends?

[Loc_n_lol]

Everything about those photo's makes me glad i was born in the 21st century :O

Are you 9 yo ? :O

[Grim Tuesday]

Question. I made it so that C point retracts into the wall until B is captured. This means RED has to go around the pit though it doesn't really affect the shortest path to A/B. Can I do that or do I need to put a grate on top of the pit until C extends?

It changes the gameplay in a VERY minor way. However, it does make it impossible to spycap. I woud say that there is no need to add a grate, especialy since it would most likely look stupid in your detailing scheme.

[grazr]

Are you 9 yo ? :O

*Live in the 21st Century.

Mr Pedantic.

[Technoman]

It changes the gameplay in a VERY minor way. However, it does make it impossible to spycap. I woud say that there is no need to add a grate, especialy since it would most likely look stupid in your detailing scheme.

You can still spycap if you ride the platform as it extends. I've tested this with scouts and it'll still count as a win even if you cap before the point is fully visible.

[Swordz]

I've used VBCT to compile the map and saw that VVIS is taking 0 seconds to compile. WTF? is that normal or i have a huge leak?

EDIT: oh, it's a problem with the sky_camera lol, fixed

[Terr]

Is anybody else having problems with the rock-wall that prevents you from seeing point 2 from the BLU spawn? It seems too thin to do anything with.

[fubarFX]

can't really work as a building.
so I made it a goldrush wall :\

[Draco18s]

Is anybody else having problems with the rock-wall that prevents you from seeing point 2 from the BLU spawn? It seems too thin to do anything with.

Agreed. I had some issues with it too. You can make part of it thicker (namely the part outside the fence or above the first floor) you can get away with it, as it will look normal from the blue spawn side, and if connected up to the one building at the end of it, will look normal from that side.

[owly-oop]

Just because someone asked, you guys can feel free to use my skyboxes

http://forums.tf2maps.net/showthread.php?t=10608

and

http://forums.tf2maps.net/showthread.php?t=10496

they were just recolors but ya

[Khuntza]

Is anyone maintaining a list of content that's had the content creators permission given for anyone to use?

I understand that the swamp pack has had permission granted.. is there more?

I checked the OP but there is no update there.. I read the last few pages of this thread..

Specifically I'm after trees.. but if there was a list of permissin pre given content that would be sweet.

[grazr]

Generally speaking most custom models in the contest are being requested specifically for this contest and subsequently come with such permissions.

Models created prior to this contest will invariably require a personal enquiry to the author about its use. There's simply no 2 ways about it. The swamp pack was an obvious topic of interest and subsequently covered in the contest FAQ.

If you're looking for trees, YM made a bunch of birch trees and Acumen has also produced some wonderful birch trees just recently. So feel free to enquire as to their potential use in the contest.

[Little Dude]

Just a curious question, but is expanding or shrinking a wall considered a layout change?

[The Political Gamer]

Just a curious question, but is expanding or shrinking a wall considered a layout change?

http://forums.tf2maps.net/showthread.php?t=14498

[Draco18s]

Anyone feel like fixing this?

TF2Maps.net has hosted four Major Mapping Contests.

From here (http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Tf2maps.net).

Because it's no longer true. And I'm too lazy to set up a wiki account.

[soylent robot]

Can you please specify the procedure for submitting the maps? Do we just put the map file in our contest entry threads as we would a normal map we were showcasing?

[Draco18s]

Can you please specify the procedure for submitting the maps? Do we just put the map file in our contest entry threads as we would a normal map we were showcasing?

As far as I know, yes.

[Okrag]

There will most likely be an upload thread, ala this. (http://forums.tf2maps.net/showthread.php?t=12822)

[Swordz]

i think there will be a bunch of people that will create the threads 1 day before the deadline... this scares me :(