Structure vs detail: post your screenshots

[Shmitz]

A conversation in the steam chat got me thinking it might be interesting if people posted screenshots of their maps minus all of the details and such that don't affect visibility, showing just the basic underlying structure. There might be some interesting comparisons to make on level construction.

To get a good hammer screenshot of your map's structure, do the following:

Find a good spot to take a picture of and make your 3d view large enough for a good shot.
Click the "Auto" tab in your visgroups sidebar.
Uncheck "Tool Brushes", "Entities", and "World Detail".
Open up the "World Geometry" group and uncheck "Displacements"
Set the 3d view to "3d Flat"
Hit your print screen key and paste it into an image editor.
Recheck "World Detail".
Set the 3d view to one of the Textured settings.
Take another screenshot.


I'll get it started:

Outside in cp_science2:
http://www.horizonscape.com/shmitz/maps/tf2/screenshots/structure01_science2.jpg

Backyard (point C) in cp_roswell:
http://www.horizonscape.com/shmitz/maps/tf2/screenshots/structure02_roswell.jpg

Courtyard area (point A) in cp_roswell:
http://www.horizonscape.com/shmitz/maps/tf2/screenshots/structure03_roswell.jpg

Feed storage area (point B) in cp_roswell:
http://www.horizonscape.com/shmitz/maps/tf2/screenshots/structure04_roswell.jpg

[Youme]

cp_bloodstained:

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/8615/whoa1pc8.jpg

http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/297/whoa2kp8.jpg

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/2537/whoa3bz3.jpg

[Vilepickle]

A few that are decent:

Castle
http://www.vilepickle.com/pics/tf2compare/castle-1a.jpg
http://www.vilepickle.com/pics/tf2compare/castle-1b.jpg

http://www.vilepickle.com/pics/tf2compare/castle-2a.jpg
http://www.vilepickle.com/pics/tf2compare/castle-2b.jpg

http://www.vilepickle.com/pics/tf2compare/castle-3a.jpg
http://www.vilepickle.com/pics/tf2compare/castle-3b.jpg

Impact
http://www.vilepickle.com/pics/tf2compare/impact-1a.jpg
http://www.vilepickle.com/pics/tf2compare/impact-1b.jpg

http://www.vilepickle.com/pics/tf2compare/impact-2a.jpg
http://www.vilepickle.com/pics/tf2compare/impact-2b.jpg

[phatal]

My level is only half way done, if that, but my center room is mostly complete. I guess because of my custom visgroups my ss's look different as far as what's included so I did as you asked for the first one (with custom visgroups active), then I did second ss with groups disabled as requested, and the 3rd ss is everything turned on.

3D FLAT
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii270/phatal808/30d157ce.jpg

REQUESTED GROUPS REMOVED
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii270/phatal808/4dbd9460.jpg

ALL GROUPS
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii270/phatal808/f26e4bab.jpg

[Koei]

cp_bloodstained:

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/8615/whoa1pc8.jpg


Why do you have brushes inside that archdisplacement?

[phatal]

*brainfart* It's a displacement it's meant to be bent. :)

[Koei]

Displacements show the brushes they were made with? It's a displacement it's meant to be bent. :)

Open up the "World Geometry" group and uncheck "Displacements"

Doesn't this remove the displacements from view? I can understand brushes behind displacements to seal the map, but this is in the middle. Maybe I'm being stupid, who knows :blink:

[Shmitz]

You're right Koei. That screenshot shows that there are brushes (presumably nodraw) inside those displacements. I don't think it's necessary to have them there when they don't have to seal the world or block backlighting. If there is a reason to have them there, they should still probably be detail brushes, since they're not really blocking visibility.

[Vilepickle]

You're right Koei. That screenshot shows that there are brushes (presumably nodraw) inside those displacements. I don't think it's necessary to have them there when they don't have to seal the world or block backlighting. If there is a reason to have them there, they should still probably be detail brushes, since they're not really blocking visibility.

Actually, in some cases they can help vis drastically. If you look at the Impact middle screenshot, I have a nodraw brush in the middle where the hill is. Without it, the entire other base ramproom was being drawn from the other team's ramproom. With it, the vis stops there and I get a much better experience.

[MangyCarface]

Displacements do not block visibility.

[Koei]

Displacements do not block visibility.

Yes, I know. And I understand that putting brushes inside them can help performance (big hills, walls, rocks etc). But I don't know how it would help in this case :)

[Youme]

when I put them in I thought that they'd actually help with cutting up vis but upon reflection I doubt they are doing anything at all. I may aswell remove them.

[Shmitz]

Actually, in some cases they can help vis drastically. If you look at the Impact middle screenshot, I have a nodraw brush in the middle where the hill is. Without it, the entire other base ramproom was being drawn from the other team's ramproom. With it, the vis stops there and I get a much better experience.

Yeah, but in your case you have an expansive nodraw brush that is blocking vis between two doorways. For a thin archway off to the side, I don't think they benefit performance any.

I'm just trying to make sure there's no confusion about nodraws behind displacements. There's no rule stating they have to be there. The usual reasons you would have them are to seal the world or to prevent light (usually from the sky) from casting light through the back of the displacement. This is function following form. In your screenshot, it's more form following function. It's the difference between making a displacement and putting a nodraw brush behind it, and making a nodraw brush and wrapping a displacement around it.

[l3eeron]

What a great idea, thanks guys for taking the time to post these. It sparked a new idea idea I want to try. Sometimes, I forget to think of the baby steps before I get caught up in the details.

[phatal]

Doesn't this remove the displacements from view? I can understand brushes behind displacements to seal the map, but this is in the middle. Maybe I'm being stupid, who knows :blink:

I wasn't thinking when I responded with that. I had a brain fart, I was thinking about the view withing hammer for displacements. :P

[VelvetFistIronGlove]

The rule of thumb I use for nodraw behind displacements: if you were to use plain brushes instead of displacements for this feature, would you make them func_detail? If so, don't put a nodraw behind.

[Youme]

well this turned into a discussion of my displacement technique... I'm gunna put it right now.
I took some pictures with mat_fullbright 2 on and I find them most interesting:

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/636/cpbloodstainedb3fullbritj9.jpg

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/9108/cpbloodstainedb3fullbrixr9.jpg

[Youme]

Bump, it would be good to see some other people's maps for comparison....

[DJive]

=( would do mine, but with the exception of the floor, its all func_detail =p