TF2Maps.net Contest #8 - KoTH, Sponsored by STAR_

[Fr0Z3n]

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1281220/TF2Maps/STARkothbanner.png
I don't think they saw that one comin' (http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/8/8f/Demoman_cheers06.wav)
Annoucement Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4d3cnogFqmo&feature=youtu.be)

Remember when I said that the next Major contest was the 72hr contest? I lied. Today we're launching our next major contest. But this contest isn't like our usual ones, this one is a sponsored contest. Our Sponsor? STAR. That's right, this guy. (http://www.youtube.com/user/Niichts) STAR has approached us with a simple task: host a King of the Hill mapping contest, with an emphasis on competitive Highlander play. Now, it is your turn to take up the challenge (and possibly win some amazing prizes).


Summary:
You have 2 and ½ months to create, test, and finish (to the best of your abilities) a KotH map, with a layout and gameplay suited for competitive Highlander. That being said, it's not a Highlander-only kind of contest. You're free to test and optimize for public play if you wish, but Highlander gameplay is definitely something you should take into consideration as our judges will be looking at that aspect extensively when rating the maps! A lot of the rules are different this time around. Please read the whole thread!


What is Highlander?
It's a competitive format where you play 9 versus 9 and you may only have 1 of each class.
For a level designer this twist brings up interesting options where you can assume that there will only ever be 1 sentry gun per team, only 1 sniper and so on, and make decisions around that. You will also want to think about roll-outs, sniper positioning, health/ammo placement, etc.


http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1281220/TF2Maps/_tg.png
Rules:

Must be a single stage KotH map.
- Multi-CP KoTH is allowed, up to 3 control points.
No medieval mode.
No Collaborations.
A forum thread for your map development must be posted in this subforum: [Link] (http://forums.tf2maps.net/forumdisplay.php?f=56) You MUST have a thread for you map by no later than August 12th. If you do not have a thread your map will be disqualified.
Your thread must include screenshots of your map, download highly recommended
Must be able to spawn 32 players (16 per team)
Maximum of two entries per author.
No straight out copying or stealing content from other maps, official or otherwise. Inspiration and ideas are good, just make sure you built it yourself for this competition.
You can not recycle your previous maps into this competition. (Even the ones you started last week)


Other things that should be mentioned to avoid confusion:

Custom content is allowed. All publicly released content will not count towards collaboration, more than 'a few' from a single modeler specifically for your map will, the first 'few' wont be. This will be enforced on a case by case basis.
"Publicly released content" means content that is available for download and use by anyone, at least one month before the submission deadline.
TF2M Staff and Officers are allowed to enter and win, but contest judges are not.



http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1281220/TF2Maps/_trt.png
Deadline:
The contest will end on August 30th, 9:00 pm UTC (Check your timezone!) (http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?day=30&month=8&year=2012&hour=21&min=0&sec=0&p1=0), (Countdown!) (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1281220/TF2Maps/starkothtimer.html).

Submissions:

You are to submit your map into the submission thread if you want it submitted.
The submission thread will be created and open 1 week before the deadline.
The submission thread will be created and stickied in the Contests forum (http://forums.tf2maps.net/forumdisplay.php?f=25)
After the deadline closes there will be a 72 hour grace period to fix any critical errors and mistakes. This will be handled on a case by case basis. The grace period is not "extra time", it's a safety net to prevent crashing servers and broken map logic.


Late entries will not be accepted! Make sure you plan ahead and avoid the risk of having 2½ months of work get disqualified.


Judgment Procedure:

------>> Note: there will be NO public voting at all!<<------
Eligibility: Maps will be checked and disqualified when the contest submission deadline ends if they do not meet the rules (see above "rules" section).

There are 3 judging categories, each one has a different weight on the final score of the map.

Game and Class Balance (50% of final score) - This category is looking specifically and the details of gameplay. Does the map have a good flow, is the layout intuitive? Are spawn timers correctly adjusted to create battles in the right areas? Is the objective too difficult to attack or too easy to defend? Is there a fair fight for the objective? Is there a good and logical distribution of health and ammo kits? How well can each class play their "roles." Is any class overpowered?
Aesthetics (25%) - Everyone knows what this means! Is the map intricate and beautiful? Is there a high level of polish to the map? Does the map fit the style of TF2? Do the individual detailing choices make the map feel put together, or discordant? Is the environment visually pleasing?
Technical (25%) - This looks at the technical aspect of the map. How well is the map optimized? How well is it clipped? Can you build teleporters inside the spawnroom? Do you have displacement seams? Does your entities cause unwanted bugs?

Preliminary voting
Preliminary voting will ALWAYS occur, no matter the number of entrants into the contest. The Preliminary voting will be done by the judge panel after the grace period has ended. The process will not be public. A maximum of 15 maps may pass through the preliminary vote, there is no minimum limit set.
After the preliminary vote the remaining finalists will of course be presented to the public.


Judges' votes

There will be a panel of judges appointed by STAR. We will also have 3-4 TF2Maps.net Judges with them. If you think you can provide a higher-than-average level of expertise, feedback and critiques, send me (Fr0z3n) a PM on the forums, saying that you are interested. The Site staff will review the applicants, and you will be contacted if selected.
The judges appointed by STAR_ will only score the 'Game and Class balance' category, while the TF2Maps.net Judges will score 'Aesthetics' and 'Technical'.
Judges will playtest each map considerably on their own, in private, via the tf2maps.net server, private servers or Highlander lobbies/pugs. Game and Class balance judges will factor in Highlander play in their scores.
The goal of the judges' vote is to get a professional look at each map, with a high degree of scrutiny that the mapmakers can use to improve their skills in the future.
Judges' own entries will be disqualified from winning; they will receive marks but will not be eligible to place in the final rankings. Judges may review their own maps but their rating will not be calculated into the map's total score.
The complete results of the scoring process will be publicized shortly after STAR has revealed the winners.

STAR_ and his Judges will be judging Game and Class Balance, giving it a rating of 1 to 100. Select TF2Maps.net Judges will be judging Aesthetics and Technical Aspect of the map, and will give each category a rating of 1 to 100. At the completion of Judging, TF2Maps.net Staff will collect the ratings, weight the values and calculate the winners. STAR_ will announce the winners via his Youtube channel, through the use of gameplay commentary video's.

Who are STAR_'s judges?
Hein (http://steamcommunity.com/id/heinlander) - TF2 HL Senior Admin for UGC, and Medic for the 'Looking Handsom,' Highlander Team, who placed 1st in last seasons Platinum league.
Ma3la (http://steamcommunity.com/id/ma3la/) - Friend of STAR_ from his Highlander team [GG], they placed first in the (2nd to last season) Platinum league. He also plays 6v6


http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1281220/TF2Maps/_grw.png
Prizes:
All prizes provided by STAR_

1st Place Prize:
$150 USD
2 Bill's Hat (http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Bill%27s_Hat)

2nd Place Prize:
$75 USD
1 Bill's Hat (http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Bill%27s_Hat)

3rd Place Prize:
$50 USD
1 Bill's Hat (http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Bill%27s_Hat)

(except this one, this one is a treat from me) As a special extra prize, the Mappers Medal will be handed out to the top 3 winners, assuming that they do not already have one.

F.A.Q!
Q: Can you explain "Must have Highlander play in consideration?"
A: When designing your map, you will need to consider aspects of highlander play, ie: tactically sightlines, respawn times, height advantages, class roles, roll-outs, etc. While you only have 2 and ½ months to make the map, you need to take the extra time and consider all these aspects when designing your map. If you have never played Highlander before, it is highly recommended that you play a few rounds via TF2Lobby.com (http://tf2lobby.com/), to get yourself acquainted with the game type.

Q: Why must I make a thread? Can't I just develop this on my own?
A: This requirement is being put in for a few reasons. First being that gameplay and balance are key to this contest. We want everyone to have a central place for players to leave detailed feedback and discuss it. Also, having a thread is good exposure for the community. More people will see the map, thus, more feedback and more testing. This rule is beneficial for you.

Q: Why is there no public vote?
A: STAR has requested that all the voting be private, and judges only. You are still free and encouraged to play the maps post-submission deadline.

Q: 70 days to make a map, Isn't that too quick?
A: Well, we believe it can be done. A KotH map is normally symmetrical in one way or the other, and the maps are usually quite small, compared to other modes (except arena). If you think about it, 2½ months is plenty of time! What we've seen from previous competitions that span several months is that people don't really use the first 30-60 days and the time is just wasted. So we're going to try this format with this smaller gamemode to see if people can get themselves in gear quicker! Hopefully this makes the competition more engaging for both competitors and 'spectators'.

Q: Can I do a hybrid KotH gamemode?
A: No. The map must be a standard KotH map, following the standard gamerules.

Q: How come multi-cp KotH is allowed but other variations are not?
A: Multiple capture points in KotH doesn't dramatically change the rules, and it's easy enough to grasp what is going on. However, as a fair warning: only attempt to incorporate additional control points in your design if you think it will improve the gameplay, you don't get any extra points just for trying it.

Q: Is this the 72 hour competition that was planned, wait, I'm confused?
A: This competition is separate from the 72h competition, both are happening, neither of them is replacing anything.
You may enter both if you like, you may even participate in the 72h competition and then submit your entry from that, to this (highlander KotH) competition. Assuming that entry fit the rules listed in this thread of course.

[Tech]

You!

[Omnomnick]

Nope. Gotta collect more bananas.

[LeSwordfish]

*shrug*

yeah, sure, okay.

[yyler]

Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit. I was starting a gpit style map in an attempt to put Hella off some more, but this works.

[Tarry H Sruman]

You bastard. Now I have to start yet another map I will never finish.

[Bereth]

Time to dig up everyone I know who plays highlander for secret testing... Excellent.

[henke37]

Aw, now I can't reuse koth_pointless. That was a fun map.

[grazr]

Aw, now I can't reuse koth_pointless. That was a fun map.

I seem to remember this map giving everyone in the server ants in their pants about TF2maps.

[Prestige]

prestigepark_redux

[Boylee]

Final nail in clifftop's coffin right here. [/jk]

srsly tho, good idea, I'll enter if I can find time.

[umbratile]

Well... I do like koth a lot.

We'll see what happens.

[Khane]

... Just Started a Koth map not two weeks ago :(

[Mick-a-nator]

Flippin' flip-a-dip-dops I just started a koth map :/

I never really play Highlander, but I think I'll give it a go. Not like I have a great track record for contests anyway.

[WastedMeerkat]

Entering this one for sure! Now I've got something to really fight for!

koth_spires_and_bridges_original_not_ripped_off_fr om_72hr_arena_contest


EDIT: Woah, what's with the space between "fr" and "om" in "from"? It's not there when I edit the post... FROZEN!!

[Fr0Z3n]

Sorry to everyone who started a koth map recently... It has been killing the staff that we are seeing all these really neat KoTH maps pop up, and can't tell you "NO NO NO NO DON'T DO IT! NOOO!"


... it's been like yelling into a TV screen while watching a horror movie at the part where you know the chick is going to be eaten by the monster.

[Sergis]

can the map be dynamic koth?

[Fr0Z3n]

can the map be dynamic koth?

Don't see why not. As long as it follows standard koth rules, and isn't any more than 3 points.

[Fredrik]

Love you STAR! You too, TF2M!

[Trotim]

Well I'm not gonna enter anything for this because of the awful timing and because koth_trotim1 is as good a KOTH as I'm gonna make already

(By the way koth_trotim1 is pretty decent for Highlander you can find it here
http://forums.tf2maps.net/showpost.php?p=262439&postcount=37 )

[Fr0Z3n]

Updated rule about requiring a thread.

Ontop of having a thread for you map, no later than the 12th of August, you MUST provide screenshots of the map. Download not needed, but HIGHLY and STRONGLY recommended.

[Sel]

Why was there no notice whatsoever, and why does it overlap with a contest that's been planned for the last like, month and a half?

[Prestige]

it's pretty much STAR's contest, not tf2m's isnt it?

[Fr0Z3n]

Why was there no notice whatsoever, and why does it overlap with a contest that's been planned for the last like, month and a half?

because that would ruin the surprise.

And thats just how it is working out. You can very easily use the 72hr contest as a springboard for a KoTH map for this contest.

it's pretty much STAR's contest, not tf2m's isnt it?

He's sponsoring it, and judging it, and we're running it. So it's kind of our contest and his contest. He stated what he wanted, we built a contest, ran it by him, changed stuff and then you get what you have now.

[Trotim]

Was there no way to postpone this? Literally just two weeks later and I wouldn't have had any complaints, but having the two contests overlap is not ideal

[Ravidge]

While it's not ideal perhaps, it's hardly a problem.
We have had contests overlap in the past, and we've managed then, and will manage now.

I don't see the 2 contests interfering with each other to any significant degree. Obviously these things crossed our mind during planning, and we didn't see any particular issues with this setup.
Unless there is some direct consequence that has escaped my mind over the past month, I don't see what the complaints are about.

[grazr]

We're running by STAR's timetable. We wanted to delay as well. He wanted a summer contest. At the end of the day you can just start your map in the 2nd/3rd week. We gave an extra 2 weeks anyway to be generous.

[Crash]

This is convenient as hell.

I was already planning on making a KoTH map specifically for Highlander mode for the 72hr contest.

Ask Frozen, I totally PM'd him about it a few days ago.

Shweet.

[fubarFX]

Well I'm not gonna enter anything for this because of the awful timing and because koth_trotim1 is as good a KOTH as I'm gonna make already

(By the way koth_trotim1 is pretty decent for Highlander you can find it here
http://forums.tf2maps.net/showpost.php?p=262439&postcount=37 )

I feel exactly the same way with koth_vanguard. but maybe I'll try making a new map. maaaaybe...

[MangyCarface]

This just reminded me that I never got my prize for the last sponsored contest :( Sold out for nothin'

[yyler]

By the way, I really like that there is no public voting.

Is there a base of operations on STAR's side, or is he all YouTube oriented?

[Fr0Z3n]

By the way, I really like that there is no public voting.

Is there a base of operations on STAR's side, or is he all YouTube oriented?

We're running the contest to his standards. He'll do updates or something, but he'll come back in towards the end of the contest for judging, which he'll do a lot of while our judges do technical/aesthetics.

EDITED: for clarifications

[PDT]

Absolutely. I've watched UGC and others for years and have not really seen any other koth map used consistently besides Viaduct or Lakeside. It'd be interesting to see what others come up with.

[MetalKev]

I was thinking about switching mapping projects anyway. This sounds awesome!
And as a bonus, lots of playtesting on koth in highlander!

[Trotim]

Oh that's right. Are we gonna run HL lobbies for this?

[Fr0Z3n]

Oh that's right. Are we gonna run HL lobbies for this?

yea. We don't have specific places yet, but there will be HL testing. I'm looking into seeing if I could afford a TF2 Server, solely for HL testing and this contest.

[yyler]

Is there a reason the current one can't be used for HL gamedays or whatever?

[Fr0Z3n]

Is there a reason the current one can't be used for HL gamedays or whatever?

the STV demo's screw up getting it set up and consistently does not want to cooperate with us.

Besides that no, HL testing will occur on our server.

[Dr. Element]

http://en.memgenerator.pl/mem-image/yo-biaatch-bring-it-on-en-000000

...Seriously tho, time for me to get of my lazy ass and DO something.

[Another Bad Pun]

must be able to spawn 32 players (16 per team)

I see

[theharribokid]

I was thinking we could host pub HL testing on our regular server, i.e. just mp_highlander 1

[Bereth]

But that defeats the entire purpose of Highlander. It means classlimits of 1, not organized strategy. Did you just set competitive class limits to do the 6v6 CTF contest? It's more or less the same thing.

[Deodorant]

I have a theme idea for a koth map that could end up looking pretty neat in the hands of a talented mapper. As I'm most definitely not entering this contest, I'm gonna leave it up for grabs if any one of you is feeling creatively starved:

koth_outage
It's set in a dense pine forest (alpine/swamp) at night, with heavy rain and thunder. The spawn rooms are rickety wooden sheds. The courtyards are muddy glades crossed by truck tracks. The central area of the map is a transformer station, which can be entered through torn down sections of the surrounding wire fence. Transformers and maintenance sheds provide an interesting map layout. Somewhere near the hill, a tree has fallen over some power lines and dragged them down, forming an insta-kill environmental hazard.

[grazr]

Oh that's right. Are we gonna run HL lobbies for this?

If you're really interested PlayStuff have a highlander server+team and is willing to support us through this contest so perhaps that's your best bet. I'm hoping we can at least organise 1 TF2maps team so we can have equal influence/involvement in any such highlander PUG's.

Depending on STAR's UGC influence, we may be able to coax some "more" official highlander testing, but we've not had that much information on that side of things. Mostly it's about getting maps into the UGC and as with our comp-CTF contest, that doesn't necasserily mean comp alpha testing.

[Kiddnils]

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/34513116/3psr1m.jpg

Nevermind count me in. Now I have finally an excuse to make a koth-map.

[re1wind]

om nom nom.

I was planning for a kothesque map for the 72 hour, so this is quite acceptable.

[stevethepocket]

Man, I'm so tempted to use this as an excuse to finally start work on koth_broadcast, but I really have no more idea what the inside of a 1960s TV station building looks like than I did a year ago.

[Mr. Happy]

Might enter this though I don't really know highlander. Always wanted to play highlander though.
Been planning on doing a KOTH map in a particular theme using particular art assets anyway, but still need to finish frostline and murky and rfhmp and re and do pp and apad...hmmm.


To everryone that says "but I just started a koth map!" (and I don't know which maps those are) throw it away or finish it later. If your only a week in just throw it away or finish it later it's not a big deal just do it if you want to. Or don't. I don't know!

[fubarFX]

To everryone that says "but I just started a koth map!" (and I don't know which maps those are) throw it away or finish it later. If your only a week in just throw it away or finish it later it's not a big deal just do it if you want to. Or don't. I don't know!
I had to put cp_vanguard on hold to participate in the cp contest. putting cp_vanguard on hold to make cp_omen was the worst decision I ever made and I still regret it to this day. vanguard became a far better map than omen could ever be. all I want to say is contests are evil and will break your soul. ...eh, I mean, make sure it's worth it if you're going to put your map on hold for the contest.

[ForbiddenDonut]

I had to put cp_vanguard on hold to participate in the cp contest. putting cp_vanguard on hold to make cp_omen was the worst decision I ever made and I still regret it to this day. vanguard became a far better map than omen could ever be. all I want to say is contests are evil and will break your soul. ...eh, I mean, make sure it's worth it if you're going to put your map on hold for the contest.

If it makes you feel better, I have a few pictures of cp_omen in my "inspirations" folder for this contest. I think it's a beautiful map aesthetically.

Although I do agree - Vanguard looks more interesting gameplay wise (which is, of course, more important).

[fubarFX]

If it makes you feel better, I have a few pictures of cp_omen in my "inspirations" folder for this contest. I think it's a beautiful map aesthetically.
fun fact: omen got the lowest aesthetic score.

I'm not sure if you're making fun of me or...

[ForbiddenDonut]

fun fact: omen got the lowest aesthetic score.

I'm not sure if you're making fun of me or...

Absolutely not. I guess my tastes are just untraditional. I really like how the BLU side looks.

EDIT: I should explain: I don't mean it's perfect aesthetically, but you have a few ideas going on that I think are really neat. The overshadowing cliffs and the massive BLU hydro-damn just give a sense of uniqueness. It's a theme that has not been attempted before. I wasn't there for that contest, but my best guess would be that you probably got snagged on some blandness, as the architecture and mood doesn't seem to change throughout the level. However, I quite enjoy a lot of the views that Omen offers.

Enough to make me re-think some of my own themes.

[Vincent]

$150...?

Shit.

I only got $2's. I guess I'll start a map up to alpha 3 and quit.

Lets do this.

[grazr]

I had to put cp_vanguard on hold to participate in the cp contest. putting cp_vanguard on hold to make cp_omen was the worst decision I ever made and I still regret it to this day. vanguard became a far better map than omen could ever be. all I want to say is contests are evil and will break your soul. ...eh, I mean, make sure it's worth it if you're going to put your map on hold for the contest.

A lot of people feel obliged to enter a contest because the competition is nice and having a deadline can inspire you to create a more finished product than you might otherwise. Not to mention community involvement and "opportunity".

I agree though, sometimes it's best to pass on a contest and concentrate on more solid projects that have more potential. I also regret entering the Valve artpass contest, not just because i didn't win/get runners up but because i had other maps that needed polishing off and i basically wasted 4 months on a project i knew was too experimental for me (i was testing out the farm theme which i could have done in a 2 week detail experiment instead). The only good thing to come out of it was the fact Earkham kindly made some hay bales for me.

[LeSwordfish]

I agree though, sometimes it's best to pass on a contest and concentrate on more solid projects that have more potential.

I think i might well do this. Two hours of experimenting with KOTH gave me zero good ideas, whilst ideas for remaking Jackal and Levee, a 5cp, and my 72hr cp-monstrosity are just dribbling out of my ears.

[yyler]

You are obligated to finish Atoll before doing anything. I don't care if it means a complete reboot. You have to.

[Mr. Happy]

I love contests because of deadline, motivation, constraints, structure, exposure. Prizes are nice too, but really, it's a great opportunity for exposure and practice and to make something in a structured way.

I had to put cp_vanguard on hold to participate in the cp contest. putting cp_vanguard on hold to make cp_omen was the worst decision I ever made and I still regret it to this day. vanguard became a far better map than omen could ever be. all I want to say is contests are evil and will break your soul. ...eh, I mean, make sure it's worth it if you're going to put your map on hold for the contest.

So you spent time on vanguard, then made omen, and then spent more time on vanguard and finished it and it was better than omen? It sounds to me like you may have improved, or like each map you made was better than the last? Or maybe you spent more time on vanguard than on omen? Maybe working on omen improved your skills and helped vanguard become awesome?

All I'm saying is that a week isn't a very long time when you think about 52 weeks in a year and TF2 has been out for years.

[fubarFX]

Maybe working on omen improved your skills and helped vanguard become awesome?

not really, all my development time on omen was me struggling to not recreate vanguard. all that time I wanted to work on vanguard but couldn't. It's kinda sad.

btw, just want to take the time to thank STAR for sponsoring the contest. it's really nice of him to not only sponsor the contest, but also promote the mapping scene.

[Sartharis]

Damn, I started working on a KoTH map a few weeks ago D: and I don't feel like starting a new one (all the copy , paste, flip horizontal, flip vertical is getting to my head).

CTRL - C , CTRL - V , CTRL - L, CTRL -I Foreveeeerrrrrr...

[Godslayer57]

Well I guess it is about time a contest fits in with my two months of free time....

[Void]

guess who maps

maps again

void is maps

tell a friend

[yyler]

you couldnt map your way out of a paper bag, get real

[Void]

i already mapped my way out of the last paper bag. the one you tried to murder me with.

the cops won't hear the end of this.

[LeSwordfish]

guess who maps

maps again

void is maps

tell a friend

Heeee's a spider-map.

[StickZer0]

Here comes Hasselkoth!

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1471205/Other/LETSDOTHIS.png

[Fr0Z3n]

Here comes Hasselkoth!

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1471205/Other/LETSDOTHIS.png

Your skills at finding clear images needs some work

http://www.tf2.com/images/posts/_08_21_09/kingofthehill_1600x1200.png

[Roosevelt]

Been messing around with the Hammer Editor recently, decided it is time to do some legit mapping. This contest has made me join the forums to further develop my skills and do some friendly competing (I really hope there is no join-date limitation on the contest haha). I realize I'm going against some veteran map makers, but oh well.

BRING ON THE MAPS!!!

[Belli]

No straight out copying or stealing content from other maps, official or otherwise. Inspiration and ideas are good, just make sure you built it yourself for this competition.

I guess props/models are allowed though? E.g., using the foundry cauldron for something, as long as you don't just copy-paste it with all of its surrounding elements (fire pit) ??

[LeSwordfish]

Yes, that's fine. Individual props are okay. Building a scene from the foundry fire pit props is okay, copy-pasting the exact same one is not

[Fr0Z3n]

I guess props/models are allowed though? E.g., using the foundry cauldron for something, as long as you don't just copy-paste it with all of its surrounding elements (fire pit) ??

Correct, notable props are okay, like the foundry cauldron, or the Upward curvey platform or the badlands spire.

Copying the final room, or spawn room, or something like that, from another map is forbidden.

[Locutus]

Why will the submission thread only be open for a week?

What if something comes up and I'm busy, or forget? If someone finishes (to the best of their ability) their map a few weeks before the deadline why shouldn't they be able to submit it early?

[Fr0Z3n]

Why will the submission thread only be open for a week?

What if something comes up and I'm busy, or forget? If someone finishes (to the best of their ability) their map a few weeks before the deadline why shouldn't they be able to submit it early?

This is just a standard we have set. If you can not submit during that time, and need to submit before hand, because of a good reason, you can PM me, and I will submit it for you.

A bad reason is "I just don't want to forget," you must have a legitimate reason for not being able to submit on time. I will tell you in the PM if I will accept the reason or not.

[Locutus]

This is just a standard we have set. If you can not submit during that time, and need to submit before hand, because of a good reason, you can PM me, and I will submit it for you.

A bad reason is "I just don't want to forget," you must have a legitimate reason for not being able to submit on time. I will tell you in the PM if I will accept the reason or not.

Just wanted to make sure. I have terrible luck and something horrible could happen. I could find myself out of town or even without internet (god forbid) for extended periods of time. D:

[Human|Brutality]

We have been needing more community koth maps and koth maps in general. I eagerly await the winners of this contest.

[Just Annoyed Engy]

Let's make a giant, outdoor map with lots of Rocket Jumping. STAR would love me.

Anyways is it possible for me and my friends to playtest the map, or getting some planning/balancing/etc help from them?

[Fr0Z3n]

Let's make a giant, outdoor map with lots of Rocket Jumping. STAR would love me.

Anyways is it possible for me and my friends to playtest the map, or getting some planning/balancing/etc help from them?

Yes, you can test with friends, but you must be the person who makes teh map. You can not collaborate on the map making.

[grazr]

STAR seems to have plugged us in a vid 3-4 days ago for both his and the 72 hour contest so we might see a lot more interest from strangers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKf_a3n6vxk

ravidge edit:
You linked the wrong video: http://youtu.be/EL43Ygke_S8?hd=1&t=4m26s

[Beetle]

I don't suppose KOTH by capping the flag is allowed, is it?

Q: How come multi-cp KotH is allowed but other variations are not?
A: Multiple capture points in KotH doesn't dramatically change the rules, and it's easy enough to grasp what is going on. However, as a fair warning: only attempt to incorporate additional control points in your design if you think it will improve the gameplay, you don't get any extra points just for trying it.

I guess that answers my question, doesn't it?

[ZooL]

Let's Map ! :D

[Fr0Z3n]

Friendly reminder to everyone that if you are making a map, you MUST have a development thread for the map in the Contest Entries (http://forums.tf2maps.net/forumdisplay.php?f=56) Subforum! You must have the thread made by August 12th or you will be disqualified!

For clarification of any rules, check out the contests main post (http://forums.tf2maps.net/showpost.php?p=263980&postcount=1), any questions can be directed at me.
You have 37 days left! (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1281220/TF2Maps/starkothtimer.html)

[Mr. Wimples]

Bout time for me to come back and do something. Hope I'm not late to the party.

[Fr0Z3n]

Hey guys, we are still taking judges applications for this:

There will be a panel of judges appointed by STAR. We will also have 3-4 TF2Maps.net Judges with them. If you think you can provide a higher-than-average level of expertise, feedback and critiques, send me (Fr0z3n) a PM on the forums, saying that you are interested. The Site staff will review the applicants, and you will be contacted if selected.

Please PM me on the FORUMS with a little blurb saying why you are interested/would be a good judge!

[LeSwordfish]

Can judges be announced before they post their reviews this time? Is that something that's never done.

[Fr0Z3n]

Can judges be announced before they post their reviews this time? Is that something that's never done.

We've never explicitly came out and said "Hey, here are the judges" because by the time that the announcement would pop up, all the judges were like "hey, I'm a judge" and everyone knew.

[Crash]

I don't see the need for revealing the judges ahead of time.

As a judge for the last big contest, it was kind of nice that none of the mappers knew that I was. I just quitely played the maps with everyone else and based my review on that. I can already picture judges getting pocket medics and more attention thrown at them, just to increase how much fun they have on a given map. I'd say it's best to leave it somewhat in the dark just to avoid any situation where something like that might happen.

Judges should have the same experience playing the map as everyone else.

[Fr0Z3n]

Friendly reminder about this rule

A forum thread for your map development must be posted in this subforum: [Link] You MUST have a thread for you map by no later than August 12th. If you do not have a thread your map will be disqualified.
Your thread must include screenshots of your map, download highly recommended

[ZooL]

i've already added it in this

http://forums.tf2maps.net/forumdisplay.php?f=56

what should i do after ?

[Fr0Z3n]

i've already added it in this

http://forums.tf2maps.net/forumdisplay.php?f=56

what should i do after ?

If your map was added to that forum before August 12th, then you'll have to officially submit your map in the upload thread that will be going up on the 23rd. It closes on the 30th.

Check the rules for more information.

[ZooL]

ok ty ;)

[Fr0Z3n]

So, we still need Aesthetics/Technical Judges.

[fubarFX]

this upload topic makes me cry like a baby

[Hanz]

Would I be allowed to let someone else compile my map if my pc keeps shitting on itself?

[Fr0Z3n]

this upload topic makes me cry like a baby
?

Would I be allowed to let someone else compile my map if my pc keeps shitting on itself?

Yes, that is okay, as long as they do not touch the map in any form.

You will need to pack any custom content, build all cubemaps, etc.

[fubarFX]

I'm going to be so short on time D: and this weekend is really the only time I will be able to get some stuff done. expect a partially detailed map from me.

[Fr0Z3n]

HI!

I'm not dead, I'm just... killing dragons... and centaurs... and zombies... and dragons...... dragons.

But, I didn't forget that today was the last time to get your map fixed. So, here is the final map pack (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/8526839/72hr/tf2m_contest_8_maps.zip) (Still uploading!)

22 entries. That is a lot! Goodluck to all of you! I'm extremely happy for the turnout, and hope that everyone is proud of their work.

Remember, there is no public voting. Judges have been asked to remain silent through-out the judging process, so don't pester them if you know who they are. STAR will release the winners via YouTube and then judges remarks will be released shortly after.

You are welcome to play and update the maps as you please. If you find anything that might break the rules, please notify me immediately on the forums or on steam (if I'm on)

Again, excellent work to everyone.
-Fr0z3n

[Hanz]

How is this preliminary voting going to happen? If it's not public, will STARs judges and/or TF2Maps judges do this?

[LeSwordfish]

There is no preliminary voting, i understand. The judges just go straight to it.

[EArkham]

I'm looking forward to a flood of STAR videos where he discusses each map individually. DO EET STAR.

[Crash]

There is no preliminary voting, i understand. The judges just go straight to it.

From the OP:

Preliminary voting
Preliminary voting will ALWAYS occur, no matter the number of entrants into the contest. The Preliminary voting will be done by the judge panel after the grace period has ended. The process will not be public. A maximum of 15 maps may pass through the preliminary vote, there is no minimum limit set.
After the preliminary vote the remaining finalists will of course be presented to the public.

[Fr0Z3n]

Correct.


STAR_'s judges will be doing the final decision on what maps make it through the prelims. No more than 15 will go through, but at least 3 will make it through. This is how it was elected to be done based on STAR's requests. I'll notify the Aesthetics/Technical judges when STAR has made the final cut (So they can save some time). I am not sure if I can release the final list publically yet, I will check with STAR when the cut is made. Don't pester the judges.



And now, back to dragons.

[Fr0Z3n]

Alright, since I have been asked 108 times (Yes, I did actually keep track, because I knew you would all be asking. You guys are really persistant, and frankly, annoying.)... I do not know when STAR_ will be done with his judging. I do not know about prelims yet, and I do not know if they will be made public. Judging will take longer than usual since it is not public, and requires some group coordination.

So please stop asking, and please be patient.

[fubarFX]

if you want to stalk http://tf2stats.net/server/70.42.74.52:27015/

[yyler]

At least he's thorough.

[Fr0Z3n]

Here is the PRELIM list in Alphabetical order (does not denote ranking).

koth_anthem_b2
koth_aquifer_b5
koth_arctic_b2a
koth_crystal
koth_drinkwater_b11
koth_flake_a10
koth_montane_b3
koth_occult_b2
koth_quarry_b2
koth_railbridge_b1
koth_skyward_b1



EDIT: UPDATED!

[Fr0Z3n]

Updated the list, sorry.

[stegarootbeer]

Here is the PRELIM list in Alphabetical order (does not denote ranking).




EDIT: UPDATED!

Why are all the winners koth? You biased or something?

[Fredrik]

if you want to stalk http://tf2stats.net/server/70.42.74.52:27015/

Does this mean that he hasn't even run my map on the server? :O
Aren't he supposed to atleast play all of the contest maps once?

[henke37]

Why are all the winners koth? You biased or something?

Yes, he is very biased towards koth maps. It's in the contest name.

[strnadik]

Does this mean that he hasn't even run my map on the server? :O
Aren't he supposed to atleast play all of the contest maps once?

I don't see my map there too :ohmy:

[Fr0Z3n]

He has examined all the maps. If it isn't on the server, then he might've played it else where or something.

[strnadik]

So if I didn't pass through Preliminary voting, then I won't even get judges rating/feedback?
Because I wanna know why I didn't pass through >:(

[Sergis]

So if I didn't pass through Preliminary voting, then I won't even get judges rating/feedback?
Because I wanna know why I didn't pass through >:(

that'd be interesting

mine doesnt even appear to be played anywhere but a 35% crit server :D

oh well

[pctoolbin]

that'd be interesting

mine doesnt even appear to be played anywhere but a 35% crit server :D

oh well

Yeah, our players enjoy the map, thus we put it in the rotation. "Oh well" for the increased crit server eh? Oh well.......we have fun and enjoy it. :P

[Sel]

predicting arctic as the winner

predicting hanz as hottest mapper of 2012

[Sergis]

Yeah, our players enjoy the map, thus we put it in the rotation. "Oh well" for the increased crit server eh? Oh well.......we have fun and enjoy it. :P

i have no problem with crit servers, the oh well part is for the map not even being played by star and not gettin thru prelims which is somewhat disappointing :p

you enjoying the map only makes me happy ;)

[Fr0Z3n]

predicting arctic as the winner

predicting hanz as hottest mapper of 2012

Everyone is a winner in my book. :D

[Tarry H Sruman]

Everyone is a winner in my book. :D

What is this little league baseball in a gated community

[Skies]

i have no problem with crit servers, the oh well part is for the map not even being played by star and not gettin thru prelims which is somewhat disappointing :p

you enjoying the map only makes me happy ;)

Our players love it, indeed :thumbup:

[Fr0Z3n]

News (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jK-NcRmVcw)

[LeSwordfish]

Is there a text version for those of us on mobile dEvices, cos mine is just saying "cannot load video"

[Crash]

It's the song The Final Countdown.

doo-doo-doo-dooo

do-do-doot-doot-doo

edit: My favorite experience related to that song is walking out of the finale of PAX East this past year with that song blaring (after the conclusion of the Omegathon, a gaming competition) and as the song faded out the majority of the crowd was singing along doing the above. It was amazing.

[Eyce]

News (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jK-NcRmVcw)

Response (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1YmS_VDvMY)

[Fr0Z3n]

We have the final numbers, I know who the winners are and so does STAR. You will learn who won whenever STAR finishes his videos.

[Tech]

Already know that Hanz won.

[Fr0Z3n]

Already know that Hanz won.

I wouldn't count other maps out, just yet.

[Okrag]

I wouldn't count other maps out, just yet.

Hanz confirmed for losing.

[Hanz]

And I didn't even do anything :(

[Crash]

And then STAR uploads a video not related to the contest.

He be trollin'

[fubarFX]

w/e was decided, good luck everyone. this contest was a lot of fun compared to others I've been in. Everyone did a good job altho I would have liked to see more innovation

[Trotim]

First video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXnh1MjhUpY) is up

[Fr0Z3n]

And Second Place Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uET3tQ7ytU&feature=g-all-u)

First place will be announced shortly. Hold onto your socks!

Recap so far:

First place: ??????
Second Place: Eyce and Railbridge
Third Place: Arnold and Flake

[EArkham]

1st will be Hanz and Arctic of course. It would be a surprise if it wasn't, given the amount it's already been played on STAR's server and how many views the various contest threads have.

Congrats to the winners so far!

[Prestige]

we already know the winner tho

[yyler]

calling it http://forums.tf2maps.net/showthread.php?t=19571

[grazr]

And Second Place Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uET3tQ7ytU&feature=g-all-u)

Man it must be dificult recieving criticism along the lines of "I dislike this part of the map but as a result it's also my favourite aspect of the map". I guess you could just conclude that it's balanced overall then. I mean what can you do about it. If you add space people are less likely to get hit by trains and the maps less fun, but it's more fun because there's more space.

D:

[Crash]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37Jxzb94rNU

Grats, Hanz!

[bob+M|M+]

Congrats Hanz!

[Hanz]

To quote super: im os exitcitde i cna braley tpye

But anyways, I'm so happy! :D

[Sel]

predicting arctic as the winner

predicting hanz as hottest mapper of 2012

called it

hanz is hottest mapper of 2012

[Little Dude]

Congrats Hanz

[Yacan1]

Nice job Hanz http://i.imgur.com/XpxaX.gif

[LeSwordfish]

I don't know if i'm officially allowed to announce my scores/reviews yet, but here we go anyway: https://docs.google.com/document/d/18qrgDM467Gzxi7jZ1FyAkGWcZN61rPEWW7mG08LX_Q4/edit#heading=h.kztneg5r4nnw

Each map has a few paragraphs about aesthetics, multiple bullet-points about score, and a min.us album of glitches and minor issues. If anyone has any issues with how their map was presented or wants further details on my logic please feel free to ask, via PM or steam.

In addition, should anyone who failed to qualify want to get the aesthetics of their map reviewed, let me know. No, i wont do technical: technical reviews are even duller to do than to read.

Congratulations to all of the winners!

[Fr0Z3n]

To quote super: im os exitcitde i cna braley tpye

But anyways, I'm so happy! :D

Well Deserved...

And to everyone, great results and great job. I'm really happy about the turn-out and how things went.

here, have some values (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/8526839/other%20maps/star_results_pre.png). I'll have a proper post up soon(ish)

[Idolon]

http://puu.sh/1fgg2

[PDT]

Congratulations to all the winners, I feel pretty happy with my results since this is my first contest.
If I'm reading Idolon's chart correctly, 5th place is pretty good, and thanks LeSwordfish for those pointers. Probably going to hammer out beta 4 sometime soon.

[yyler]

Was Sword the only judge on our side?

[Fr0Z3n]

Was Sword the only judge on our side?

No, Swordfish, Ravidge and TheKieranator were our judges.

[EArkham]

Will there be a breakdown of STAR and Hein's gameplay scoring?

I find it a little disconcerting that I was getting generally very positive feedback on skyward's gameplay from here, only to have it rank dead last on gameplay from STAR, not even beating the map with exploitable perches.

[Fr0Z3n]

Unless STAR has them hidden somewhere and didn't tell me, there will not be any backing for maps who are not in the top 3 (and the backing then is stated in the video's). It was intended for write ups to happen; but for multiple reasons, it didn't. Sorry!

I guess the one thing I can say about testing here and what might've happened in the judging is that there was a lot of testing occuring with full, 24 man servers or there was 9v9, but multiple of classes. Remember that this contest was about gameplay, and the specifics of it for highlander. So, what might work for a Pub group, might not really work out well for HL/6v6.

[EArkham]

Right, I get all that.

But most of my positive feedback and testing was from 6v6 play (thanks to ScorpioUprising), and while 6v6 comp is very different from 9v9 comp, they're both worlds apart from pub play. Since the 6v6 testing had been so promising, I was hoping to continue developing it for that. However "gameplay 30/20" doesn't tell me what's so badly broken, and doesn't really give me any clues on what to fix.

Moot until I figure out the cubemaps problem anyway, so I'll stop cluttering the thread about it. :)

[Sel]

+1 for disappointed in the lack of any explanation behind the gameplay scores, and also perplexed by some of them.

In the future if we do something like this again, we can't just outsource our judges and not have any control over how they judge.

[yyler]

I kinda agree with EArkham. If they can be prodded in some way to post some very basic stuff, that'd be pretty beneficial. I'm in the same boat where all the HL testing I did led me to believe I did very well. I'm not complaining, 4th is pretty respectable, but I wouldn't mind reading something a bit more in depth on each of the maps. Even the ones with videos. I don't want anything changed, I just want to understand the mindset more. Even the third place map--the main drawback is that it's trivially easy to spawn camp. I'm surprised it won over other maps despite that, frankly.

Trying really hard to not sound like a bitter asshole, probably not succeeding.

No, Swordfish, Ravidge and TheKieranator were our judges.

Bing Kier and Rav: post em if you got em, please.

[Fr0Z3n]

Bing Kier and Rav: post em if you got em, please.

I'll be making a formal post with everything in it soon. Giving Kier a day to send me his write up. (if he doesn't I'll post what I have and update as I get it).

+1 for disappointed in the lack of any explanation behind the gameplay scores, and also perplexed by some of them.

In the future if we do something like this again, we can't just outsource our judges and not have any control over how they judge.

As I said before, it was our plan to have write-ups but for multiple reasons it didn't happen.

[grazr]

If it's any consilation we (the site staff) struggled in compromising with the judging format as we're very used to our ways of scoring contests and scoring them in such a way that provides quality feedback to our level designers.

Unfortunately STAR is not a mapper, nor has he held any mapping contests and wanted a different format for the contest in general. In essence it was a KoTH promotion campaign and many of the KoTH maps were expected to be in late beta and not need significant further development. It was very much on his terms as it was largely about his audience and we were largely the facilitators with a few lucky winners. IE the contest here could be considered only half of what the event was about.

One of the other issues we fenced with was map testing. STAR was willing to promote the contest and judge it, but in terms of getting together players to help test our alpha maps (and we all know how hard alpha maps are to test competitively), this was not a part of the process he wanted to be involved in, despite supposed cooperation with/from the UGC. As you also noticed there are no significant write ups, STAR made it clear he and his judges would not be reviewing the maps in detail.

This was frustrating because the idea was to make maps for the competitive leagues yet without support of competitive testing. We could have argued more on the fundementals so we had more control, but we saw that it was just as important to breathe life into the community with an out sourced contest at the expense of a couple judgement procedure nuances. This was why we had some in house judges as well to offset the unreliable out sourced judges.

The contest was under strict time constraints so we had to run with certain compromises, although admittedly we did most of the compromising. We had hoped people would just enjoy the contest for what it was and worry less about the details we'd normally cover in our standard contest format. So hopefully you can rest assured the issues some people may have had with the contest at least will not be repeated. We are very well aware of them.

[TheKieranator]

Fr0z3n must have been short of decent judge applicants if he accepted me as one of the three :P

Jokes aside, I am glad that I was chosen because I probably wouldn't have looked any further at these maps than glancing at the screenshots in their development threads. A lot of really good looking maps came out of this contest and I thoroughly enjoyed looking at and learning from them. I've not had much experience with judging maps at this level before, so hopefully my marks aren't too far off. I may have not gotten a map past a3 (yet; I'm working on the a4 of my 72hr map at the moment), but I'd like to think I know what I'm talking about when looking at the visuals. My technical scores might be a bit off the mark though, since the extent of my optimization history is clipping stuff, nodrawing, func_detailing and chucking some hints around.

Anyway, down to business:

I will be posting my judgement write ups over the course of the next day. For each write up I'll post a brief summary of my main points, accompanied by an imgur album as a visual aid with additional notes. I'm going to use this post as a hub of sorts, providing links to the write ups that will be posted in the development threads for their respective maps. Since the results have already been released publicly, I've decided to post all my write ups in placing order, starting with Arctic. Why am I staggering them out? Stupid real life is getting in the way of awesome TF2 life, so I've been rather busy as of late.

Without further ado, TheKieranator's List of Judgements:

Arctic by Hanz (http://forums.tf2maps.net/showpost.php?p=275424&postcount=56)
Railbridge by Eyce (http://forums.tf2maps.net/showpost.php?p=275431&postcount=29)
Flake by Arnold (http://forums.tf2maps.net/showpost.php?p=275503&postcount=44)
Anthem by yyler (http://forums.tf2maps.net/showpost.php?p=275508&postcount=32)
Montane by PDT (http://forums.tf2maps.net/showpost.php?p=275528&postcount=50)
Occult by fubarFX (http://forums.tf2maps.net/showpost.php?p=275576&postcount=33)
Skyward by EArkham
Aquifer by Crash
Quarry by Idolon
Drinkwater by J4CK8
Crystal by evicted


And the award for 'Most Used Poster' goes to:
http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/6/68/Jimi_jam.jpg

(I found the extra one you hid in Quarry too, Idolon.)

This is taking longer than I had hoped. Please bear with me :(

[Tech]

Already know that Hanz won.

See, I was right.

[Sergis]

methinks next time we have a contest judged like this one we could just have two separate judgings, two rankings and two winners - one by tf2m standart judging with tons of feedback and public judgement as usual and one by the outside judges whatever way they please :D

[EArkham]

This was frustrating because the idea was to make maps for the competitive leagues yet without support of competitive testing.

This is not really a problem with the contest, but with making competitive maps in general I think.

In my experience, here's what happens: you make a map, you post about it on a comp forum, you hear "looks great, let's get a pub on it" and then that's the last you ever hear of it. Even if you bump the thread with updates, it's to the sound of crickets.

And sometimes if you're really unlucky, you'll hear a comp player say "why don't mappers understand what comp players want." :D

So getting semi-regular 6v6 feedback has been a really excellent, but rare experience for me personally. Speaking of comp desires, I watch not only STAR but Sal, eXtine, and ETF2L channels on youtube pretty heavily, and I'm still mostly clueless on what comp players are actually looking for in a map.

[Fr0Z3n]

methinks next time we have a contest judged like this one we could just have two separate judgings, two rankings and two winners - one by tf2m standart judging with tons of feedback and public judgement as usual and one by the outside judges whatever way they please :D

Two ranks and two winners = double the work for the organizer(s) and double the prizes needed. Judging like this worked out fine for the first time out. Yes, there can be improvements, but things for this one went smoothly and turned out well.

[Trotim]

This is not really a problem with the contest, but with making competitive maps in general I think.

In my experience, here's what happens: you make a map, you post about it on a comp forum, you hear "looks great, let's get a pub on it" and then that's the last you ever hear of it. Even if you bump the thread with updates, it's to the sound of crickets.

And sometimes if you're really unlucky, you'll hear a comp player say "why don't mappers understand what comp players want." :D

So getting semi-regular 6v6 feedback has been a really excellent, but rare experience for me personally. Speaking of comp desires, I watch not only STAR but Sal, eXtine, and ETF2L channels on youtube pretty heavily, and I'm still mostly clueless on what comp players are actually looking for in a map.

spires

It's true though. Too many players still don't understand how maps are made so if they see dev textures they think "wow that's shit" and never bother looking again

[GPuzzle]

You know what's worse? When I say I'm a mapper, people don't believe or ask me stuff like "make a giant dick"! And when I say I work with dev textures, they ask me if I make Orange maps!
Everywhere people think mappers are useless or that they make the map good-looking first, THEN fix the layout!

[Sergis]

Two ranks and two winners = double the work for the organizer(s) and double the prizes needed. Judging like this worked out fine for the first time out. Yes, there can be improvements, but things for this one went smoothly and turned out well.

its easy for things to go smooth when there are almost no things going on :p

[Fr0Z3n]

its easy for things to go smooth when there are almost no things going on :p

Mmmm, you'd be surprised...

[HarMala]

congratulations Hanz (and others) :)

[Sergis]

Mmmm, you'd be surprised...

nope.

maybe for you running shit was eventful.

but from over here, this looked quite uneventful. "aight ive sent maps to star" "here are stars prelims" "here is a news video" "here are the winners". done. no feedbacks, no public votings, no real reason to play contest maps, no way to make your opinion matter, no intrigue seeing a few maps getting early votes, no anything that was natural to any other contest. no participation in the contest process after submission date at all. just toss the maps into submission thread and sit and wait for the results.

[LeSwordfish]

no way to make your opinion matter,

Well, we had only two people volunteer to be judges. Neither of them were you. So, you know, for next time...

[Prestige]

competitive players just want near-perfect maps in all aspects i think. good difficulty + evenness of pushing at mid-2nd and 2nd-last stalemates (5cp), good class balance, etc.. I think problems in map design are just more highlighted in organized play is all. It's difficult to tell really...scorp/arnold might have some insight.

I remember having a lot of fun on skyward in pugs, but when some people with a better understanding of tf2/6's played in one, they pointed out some flaws that I didn't really notice before (something about heavies rolling out onto battlements being unstoppable), but i don't think it deserved the lowest ranking.

[Little Dude]

I'm not too sure where my map placed in all of this

[Sergis]

Well, we had only two people volunteer to be judges. Neither of them were you. So, you know, for next time...

clever guy eh

do you even read the rules of the contest


TF2M Staff and Officers are allowed to enter and win, but contest judges are not.


"for next time" think before posting

[Fr0Z3n]

"for next time" think before posting

I think he was implying that if you weren't going to enter, you could judge and let your opinion be heard.

Please be more respectful towards other members doom.

[grazr]

This is not really a problem with the contest, but with making competitive maps in general I think.

In my experience, here's what happens: you make a map, you post about it on a comp forum, you hear "looks great, let's get a pub on it" and then that's the last you ever hear of it. Even if you bump the thread with updates, it's to the sound of crickets.

And sometimes if you're really unlucky, you'll hear a comp player say "why don't mappers understand what comp players want." :D

So getting semi-regular 6v6 feedback has been a really excellent, but rare experience for me personally. Speaking of comp desires, I watch not only STAR but Sal, eXtine, and ETF2L channels on youtube pretty heavily, and I'm still mostly clueless on what comp players are actually looking for in a map.

ETF2L was great for comp testing until Tarmo- (or was it MacNetron? Or both) left as an admin. When the admins lose the initiative to support custom maps the players don't tend to really give a shit either way. The servers never get updated and the map rotations never change. The comp community really need an admin to kick them up the backside in regards to supporting the development of comp focused maps and if i were to suggest any clans or PUG teams it's almost always the Finnish guys who're up for comp testing.

[fubarFX]

there are some interesting discussions about custom maps on teamfortress.tv
there is some talk about changing how custom maps are processed. not sure if it will change anything but there's hope

[yyler]

spires

apparently not, i tried that

[tovilovan]

This is not really a problem with the contest, but with making competitive maps in general I think.

In my experience, here's what happens: you make a map, you post about it on a comp forum, you hear "looks great, let's get a pub on it" and then that's the last you ever hear of it. Even if you bump the thread with updates, it's to the sound of crickets.

And sometimes if you're really unlucky, you'll hear a comp player say "why don't mappers understand what comp players want." :D

So getting semi-regular 6v6 feedback has been a really excellent, but rare experience for me personally. Speaking of comp desires, I watch not only STAR but Sal, eXtine, and ETF2L channels on youtube pretty heavily, and I'm still mostly clueless on what comp players are actually looking for in a map.

From my experience of competitive mapping, there's no way you're gonna create a map liked by the competitive community without any sort of competitive experience. You're just not gonna be able to 1. anticipate what competitive players expect and 2. understand what they mean with their (often scarce, I grant that) feedback, unless you've been in those same situations myself.

Apparently there's a HUGE request for competitive maps, but the reason why so few maps get further than alpha stage is because the one creating them has to be 1. An experienced competitive player 2. An experienced level designer and 3. Have the determination to update maps again and again with little feedback, and endure the fact that most of the feedback will be about how ugly the map is. I've found that as a competitive mapper, you simply cant expect playtesting - you'll have to find someone in the community that likes your map, and discuss it with them, or be a part of the community yourself and in that way find ways to playtest it.

[Ravidge]

I suggest a whole new thread to be created if this topic of competitive mapping in these very large terms (as in, not isolated to this contest in particular) continues. It's a good topic to explore, just saying that this thread isn't suited to host it.

[stevethepocket]

Why do comp players care about how ugly a map is? I thought they were the types who play with fpsconfigs that make the game look like ass no matter what map they're on.

[yyler]

Like anyone else, they appreciate effort.

[Sergis]

Why do comp players care about how ugly a map is? I thought they were the types who play with fpsconfigs that make the game look like ass no matter what map they're on.

maybe thats the secret

maybe a map that looks good in full detail not necessarily looks good in flattextures :D

im not entirely sure how serious am i here tho

[Burnout6010]

Why do comp players care about how ugly a map is? I thought they were the types who play with fpsconfigs that make the game look like ass no matter what map they're on.

It's quite ironic if you think about it ...
Even more funny : I remember a while back someone proved using Low Quality textures used more resources than Very High because the game has to recalculate the texture into a more uglier and blurrier version :O

[Sel]

It's quite ironic if you think about it ...
Even more funny : I remember a while back someone proved using Low Quality textures used more resources than Very High because the game has to recalculate the texture into a more uglier and blurrier version :O

I find it pretty doubtful that scaling down images takes many resources, or that the engine would be doing that on the fly, all the time.

[Ravidge]

MIP mapping in source is not done in realtime. All the lower resolutions of a texture is baked into the vtf file. The only gain you could possibly get from forcing lower MIP textures is reduced GPU memory usage. In other words, lowering the texture quality will not increase your render FPS one bit, unless you're choking the gpu memory, which is very unlikely.

The reason competitive players reduce the mipmapping levels is to reduce visual noise.
Or they're just clueless and do it because "it's in this pro config I downloaded, so to be pro, I have to do it as well".

[stevethepocket]

So wait, you're saying the texture quality setting that the game has in its own default options menu and even sets to "High" by default instead of "Very High" is useless?

[Fr0Z3n]

Big thanks to bloodhound who made a results page for us (http://star.tf2maps.net/)! (And did so without being asked to!)

[Crash]

Without further ado, TheKieranator's List of Judgements:

Arctic by Hanz (http://forums.tf2maps.net/showpost.php?p=275424&postcount=56)
Railbridge by Eyce (http://forums.tf2maps.net/showpost.php?p=275431&postcount=29)
Flake by Arnold (http://forums.tf2maps.net/showpost.php?p=275503&postcount=44)
Anthem by yyler (http://forums.tf2maps.net/showpost.php?p=275508&postcount=32)
Montane by PDT (http://forums.tf2maps.net/showpost.php?p=275528&postcount=50)
Occult by fubarFX (http://forums.tf2maps.net/showpost.php?p=275576&postcount=33)
Skyward by EArkham
Aquifer by Crash
Quarry by Idolon
Drinkwater by J4CK8
Crystal by evicted


Any chance we are getting the last of these?