Do we need the Steam group anymore?

[Immortal-D]

Be honest with me. As membership here grows and the group stagnates, I question if the effort to maintain it is really neccessary. For almost the past month, everyone who was Player Of The Week didn't even know it. And close to 3/4 of the members haven't been heard from since the day they joined. I'm sure we could get a quasi chat room going here on the forums if needed. It just seems to me that we have evolved from being TF2Mappers group to the tf2maps.net community. This is fine by me, as it means less work on my end lol. But I really need to know what you guys think. I'm not adding any 'what if' answers. Straight up yes or no, and please tell me why.

[drpepper]

IMO, i think having both a steam chat and messageboard is beneficial. having a way for users to get help on the fly vs posting and waiting is monumental. but i do see your point!

im with ya either way bud. :biggthumpup:

[spaceweasels]

I know I don't check it as often as I should, but I like having it around. Especially when the MB is down.

[Immortal-D]

Well barring any unforseen problems, the forums are fully upgraded and stylized. So the only reason they might go down is if drpepper blows up his computer :p

[gnat]

i think it would be really silly to rid yourself of the steam group. i'm curious what efforts are needed to maintain it? are there any costs involved? the real time chat is vastly superior for on the fly conversations and organizing things like playtesting.

i havent been on the chatroom much the last couple weeks but then again i've barely opened hammer either. if i'm actually mapping i'm far more likely to check a chatroom, be it IRC or steam for people's immediate opinions or advice.

[Nizzem]

I think we need to try and get more people involved in the chat room. It is really an invaluable resource and I would hate to loose it.

[Intraman]

I really think it's necessary and helpful. In fact this morning there was someone in the chat that happened fine the steam group. She was a great mapper to (from what screens I saw.) I doubt that is a rare occurance at all.
The steam group is really useful being able to play with people from the boards, helping play test, getting quick help, and such too. It's really a vital resource.

[MacNetron]

I found this site through Steam community.

[A Boojum Snark]

As people have said, the chat is great. It will bring in more people, too, what with it showing on all our personal pages.

[S.E.A.L.#555]

Yeah, chat must stay!

[Shmitz]

While the group itself is something I consider very beneficial, I do have to admit I would be in favor of moving the chat to IRC instead of Steam. Steam has a bit of a way to go before it's really suited for full-time chatting.

[Intraman]

but then people couldn't quickly join servers for play testing and such.

[Dox]

Ive had difficulties in the past with IRC... Please keep chat the way it is. Nothing makes me happier than joining the chat room and starting a random conversation about ramen ignoring the current conversation lines going on.

[Buster Charlie]

I use the chat all the time
You can get messages IN GAME with it, while you are testing maps

[Ziggurat]

I feel that steam community chat is vastly inferior to irc for the following reasons:

1) I already use irc. This makes it easy to just add a new channel to what I'm already in.

2) Steam is a resource hog. Steam for me uses 15 megs of ram and 115 VM just being idle. Mirc uses 7 and 8, respectively. So, if I'm not doing level design or actually in game, I don't even have steam running.

3) irc has effortless logging

[Intraman]

Again though, the chat is of most use to people that are mapping and have steam open.

[Godling]

I can't even begin to imagine why this question is being posed. Well... sure I can. What happened? Last scheduled activity didn't pan out, so you want to ditch the steam group?

This group should never leave steam. It's a way for new users to find us and it's a way for people using steam friends to see who is around. I personally really like the convenience of the steam group chat, which would obviously disappear if the group disbanded. I also don't really see a pseudo chat here via the web site doing any better than the steam chat would (or irc for that matter). Sure, a web based chat or irc provides many more chat options... I just don't see that as being a draw. Steam has convenience on its side... and if you're worried about the steam program footprint in memory... ram is cheap... upgrade... it will also benefit your mapping.

... and of coarse... already mentioned by some... the ability to join games in progress and to be able to message while in game.

Suggestion: remove group members that have been inactive for over 60 days. They can always rejoin if they want to.

[Immortal-D]

I appreciate all of your thoughts guys, I really do. I honestly wasn't sure how useful the Steam chatroom is, since you can look up almost anything here or on the Valve wiki. I realize IRC or Xfire make better chat programs. If the day ever comes when our chatroom actually gets crowded, I'll look into an alternative. But for now, long as you guys think we need it, it will remain open :)

[HoundDawg]

The steam group is a definite yes. I really didn't know about this until I was searching the steam groups. Then, just yesterday as I was trying to release the final version of cp_meleebarn, I ran into a few roadblocks which the steam chat allowed me to work through them and get it released.

IRC is going to be superior to Steam Chat and I'm not sure if Valve is trying to become IRC either. They're just wanting to provide a simple chat system that will benefit gamers while playing too, without being too intrusive. I think they've come a long ways from the original beta Steam I tested years ago.

I don't see much problem having both an IRC channel and the Steam group, as long as there are people willing to idle in them and assist mappers. Personally, I prefer Steam over IRC, since I no longer idle in IRC anymore and Steam is already active.

Oh, and the problem I had with XFire (when it first released... never gave it a second chance) is that programs like that... from 3rd party companies that hook windows like they did... I just don't trust them anymore. I know they possibly had good intentions.. but I really didn't like how it was all handled back then and haven't felt good about giving them a second chance either. Not that I haven't had the need for XFire at all anyway when other more trustworthy options exist.

[Vilepickle]

I'd prefer if it was an IRC room on Gamesurge, as anyone on IRC has no idea about there being a Steam group for mapping.

Plus, the fucking window doesn't flash at me every time someone types something.

[Krylzay]

If the Steam Group isn't working out just stop putting so much time into it. I think its worth keeping up for the chat room, not the events. No reason getting rid of it just stop putting as much time into it.

I vote yes.

[ryodoan]

The steam group should definitely stay for several reasons:
Easier for new Steam users to find us.
Great resource for people who need help in real time.
IRC requires you to download an install a separate application, Find the IP address for the server, and then find the channel, while if they have TF2 they have steam ergo, they have the steam chatroom making it very easy to access.
You can chat in game with Steam Chat.
Yes logging is infinitely easier with IRC (we are talking INFINITELY easier) but I think we are managing alright with my online logs.
Time for a shameless plug http://caffeinesystems.ath.cx/TF2Mappers
We should keep the group not just because it helps people find us and gives us a chat room but because it makes organizing events a lot easier.
If you think the last event was a flop then I am seriously confused because we had at least 15 people in the chat room all on one server and more people joined from the public thereby giving us more exposure.
If you think the last event was a flop, where were you? If you had joined the chat you would have quickly been told the servers IP address, or you could have just clicked on our names and said "View Server Info" to see we were all in the same server.


That all being said I am very, very well aware of the features that the Steam chat and Steam Community in general are lacking, my biggest complaints are:
Lack of a "Log Chats" option (seems like a *duh* option to me)
Lack of the ability to kick people from public groups so that only active members are present.
Lack of some of the more useful IRC commands
And this is just a pipe dream, but lack of an API to interface with the Steam Community, ex. allow someone to write a IRC integration for the steam community which would allow you to perform steam actions through IRC and have IRC be launched by the "Join Chatroom" on the Community homepage and / Or sync the Steam chatroom with an IRC chatroom.

[Nizzem]

Lack of some of the more useful IRC commands



You have '/me' what more do you want!!??! :lol:

[ryodoan]

You have '/me' what more do you want!!??! :lol:

/slap Nizzem

Paul slaps Nizzem around a bit with a large trout.

[Vilepickle]

Eh I just think an IRC channel would be more "official" that people could actually idle in regularly (not open another damn window out of the way every time you boot up)

#tf2maps on irc.gamesurge.net - start it nao!

[ryodoan]

But the thing is I don't want to create a split in the already small group of chatters.

We only have 4-10 people who use the chat at any one time, and if we start to split it between two different apps, IRC / Steam then it will be practically useless because we will need to have both apps open if we want to chat with everyone.

Pick one and use, and I say the steam chat room because that is how 99% of the people who are in the steam group or just need mapping help will find us.