CP_Redstone

[skdr]

Hey guys.

I did the mapping and some modeling and my friend pjauri concentrated on concepts and modelling. It's still heavy work in progress but I thought that it's progressing well enough to show you guys. Tell me what you think.

Update 24.2.2008:
New shots from the red side. Much requested overview now available. Some sky tweaks.

Redstone overview screenshot (http://3decade.com/cp_redstone/cp_redstone_004_layout.jpg)

Latest shots:
http://3decade.com/cp_redstone/cp_redstone_004_01.jpg

http://3decade.com/cp_redstone/cp_redstone_004_02.jpg

http://3decade.com/cp_redstone/cp_redstone_004_03.jpg

http://3decade.com/cp_redstone/cp_redstone_004_04.jpg

http://3decade.com/cp_redstone/cp_redstone_004_05.jpg

http://3decade.com/cp_redstone/cp_redstone_004_06.jpg

http://3decade.com/cp_redstone/cp_redstone_004_07.jpg


Old shots: (Some very old too from early builds)
http://3decade.com/cp_redstone/cp_redstone_003_001.jpg
http://3decade.com/cp_redstone/cp_redstone_003_002.jpg
http://3decade.com/cp_redstone/cp_redstone_003_003.jpg
http://3decade.com/cp_redstone/cp_redstone_003_004.jpg
http://3decade.com/cp_redstone/cp_redstone_02_001_s.jpg
http://3decade.com/cp_redstone/cp_redstone_02_002_s.jpg
http://3decade.com/cp_redstone/cp_redstone_02_003_s.jpg
http://3decade.com/cp_redstone/cp_redstone_001_s.jpg
http://3decade.com/cp_redstone/cp_redstone_002_s.jpg
http://3decade.com/cp_redstone/cp_redstone_003_s.jpg
http://3decade.com/cp_redstone/cp_redstone_004_s.jpg
http://3decade.com/cp_redstone/cp_redstone_005_s.jpg
http://3decade.com/cp_redstone/cp_redstone_006_s.jpg

[skdr]

Placeholder post.

[dirtyminuth]

Looks fairly polished already. How much of the "Battlements" (i.e. plethora of buildage in first two shots) is accessible? You don't want players getting too distracted. Custom rocket model suits the TF2 theme well; maybe it's a bit too weathered and gray if we're nitpicking.

[JTG]

Wow... just... wow.

That's some great work.

I have to agree with dirtyminuth... the model is perfect but the texture doesn't quite match the TF2 color scheme. But that's a trivial detail, IMO. Any chance of having smoke pouring out of the rocket onto the CP? I dunno how well the FPS would hold up but it make for some interesting fights. :)

[Voztron]

Great looking map!
Do you have a layout image?

[Vilepickle]

Wow... just... wow.

That's some great work.

I have to agree with dirtyminuth... the model is perfect but the texture doesn't quite match the TF2 color scheme. But that's a trivial detail, IMO. Any chance of having smoke pouring out of the rocket onto the CP? I dunno how well the FPS would hold up but it make for some interesting fights. :)

The rocket smoke in Granary has limited visible range with no clear way to increase the distance. It SEEMS fairly cheap too.

[Logo]

Looks nice but at the same time isn't too cluttered and looks very playable. Interesting to see how this one turns out.

[Snipergen]

Looks freakin nice tbh! Reminds me of 2fort.

[YM]

If that plays well you may have just made the best custom so far. Looks F'in awesome!

[Kev_Boy]

Who's to determine what plays well though?
Everyone will give a different response.

Does something not play well because it frustrates you or does something play well because it challenges you. You'll notice these two things are identical just worded differently.

[Logo]

Not really there's a lot of subtle details that make all the difference.

The first point in Dustbowl is challenging to defend, the last one is challenging to attack. The last point in Wolf and Toy Fort are frustrating to capture.

The biggest difference is the player should never feel like the map is holding them back. It should always be the other team that is actively preventing their success. On a map like wolf for example the player tends to feel like the long hallway combined with a severe height disadvantage and a high travel cost in taking the back route makes trying to capture the last point frustrating (and near impossible).

On dustbowl all of the action focused into a single area makes it hard to progress or capture the point. However the map is balanced such that the defending team can't easily hold the forward position due to travel distances and the threat of spies or other classes circling around back and capturing. When pushed towards the CP the defending team is better able to focus on all the incoming routes at once. Meanwhile though the variety of routes for the attacking team gives the players choice and the ability to switch up their tactics or point of attack and the attackers aren't at a disadvantage due to the terrain. They are only disadvantaged because they must push forward and the defenders are closer to the spawn than the attackers.

[YM]

true, although you seem to loose the first two dustbowl sections as the defenders I seem to be set in this mind set of make it an epic loose. lol

did I say, looks awesome!

[ryodoan]

Those screen shots look awesome, I hope we get a chance to play it at our next game night.

@Logo I never really thought about it that way but you are very right about it being the enemy team, not the map holding you back.

[greenridge]

Do the big red "C A B" on the blue side's background cylinders bother anyone else?

[YM]

not me, I quite liked it

[Voztron]

Yes that did annoy me a bit. They need to be in the right order.
I would still like to see a laypout screen :)

Map is looking really good, keep at it!

[skdr]

Thank you guys.

I'm working on interior lighting and detail now. They're still too "basic" for my taste at the moment.

I'll keep you guys updated with new screens soon.

[Kirko]

looks awesome!! i hope i can make something like that one day! maybe if u put a couple little bottles trash around the map that can be shot around would help add some spunk to the map.

[rasnarok]

Wow, excuse me for completely ignoring the gameplay mechanics of this map but it's beautiful!

[skdr]

Updated first post with new screens and details.

[YM]

That sky looks nice, whats the deal with the planet in the background?

[skdr]

That planet is there just for looks. This map is based on a small space station in a small planet and that planet is giving the impression we're not "at home". Still things to tweak but I think it fits nicely there. Of course, oversized antennas on the surface makes it look more like TF2 ;)

I'd like to hear opinions on this from others too. Suggestions are always welcome.

[Rock]

I'm impressed. Looking forward to when the playable version comes out. Really like that first screen shot with the rocket and what looks like low lying clouds.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j207/skipatc/Rocks-UberBar.png

[ryodoan]

Those new screen shots look amazing. I think it looks as good as if not better than the Valve maps from what i can see in the screenshots.

[P.Jauri]

Hi all!

Here's some 2d stuff I've made for the map. The travel ad is for the diners wall and the cosmonaut piece will be used somewhere on the red side as a propaganda poster.

Enjoy!

Pekka Jauri

http://www.3decade.com/cp_redstone/2d_mars.jpg
http://www.3decade.com/cp_redstone/2d_cosmo.jpg

[YM]

awesome, this map is gunna be just awesome

[Voztron]

This is looking sweet! When do you expect to have a beta out?

[skdr]

Hopefully in a month.

[drp]

skdr, are you the same skdr that maps/mapped? for dod source? i think you made a map with the most amazing 3d skybox with a forest and mountain backgrounds. or maybe im just crazy.

[sailfin]

whoa, i really like the little planet with the radar. How did you make that? maya? i cant wait to try it :P

[P.Jauri]

Planet and the radar were modelled in 3ds Max, though planet's appearance mostly comes from hand-painted diffuse-texture and normalmap.

[skdr]

First post updated with new shots

[skdr]

skdr, are you the same skdr that maps/mapped? for dod source? i think you made a map with the most amazing 3d skybox with a forest and mountain backgrounds. or maybe im just crazy.
Yeah, I did some mapping for dod source but I can't recall making a forest map :)

[skdr]

First post updated once again.
Comments? :)

[Vilepickle]

I like the way your outside looks, which is probably attributed to the sun values you're using. Are you using yellow for ambience? I'd love to see your values, it's sometimes hard to find a sun that looks the best.

[YM]

Looks awesome, cant wait

[DrHaphazard]

Looking excellent. Very busy from the screenshots, must have taken you lots of time to do, but I am absolutely looking forward to playing it.

Got an ETA on a beta?!

[skdr]

Beta is coming when it's ready. Not quite sure when but soon enough.

[drp]

Beta is coming when it's ready. Not quite sure when but soon enough.

cant be soon enough, ill tell you that.

[skdr]

Beta 1 released!
http://www.mapcore.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=10771

[Vander]

I clicked your link...and McAfee warned me it just blocked a trojan virus program. Nice.

Guess I'll be waiting on this one for a bit longer...

[Armadillo of Doom]

Hmm. A virus warning from the download link? Regardless, it at least looks phenomenal. I especially like the planet set in the backround of the first pic. I see this map as being a major fps killer though. Will download tomorrow when I'm not sleepy. And I've updated my virus thing ;)

[Earl]

Crap!! My AV didn't catch it!

[Paria]

its more than likely its a false positive..

didn't have long this morning to really check the map out, but it does look mighty impressive from all the screenshots

[Scoobingsthe2nd]

Said it in the TF2 steam forums and I'll say it here. I'm so envious of the custom content you got to work with. You and your friend did an excellent job of modeling. Beyond that I haven't played it yet so I can't say :)

[Earl]

Was it a known trojan that I could look up specifically how to remove?

So far I don't notice anything different.

[skdr]

MapCore has hosting problems and it's reporting some false positive trojans.
My download links shouldn't have any problems:

http://www.dod-federation.com/media/maps/cp_redstone_b1.rar
http://www.dayofdefeat.fi/temp/cp_redstone_b1.rar

[Vander]

Ok. I'm downloading it from the dod-fed site now.

Earl: I clicked the link to recreate the warning so I could nab you some info. However, it didn't do it this time. Probably just a false positive like the man said. :)

[YM]

Downloading now, goin on our server ;)

[YM]

Played it with three people and it looks marvelous! really really nicely done. I love the jet engine thing, its awesome.

[Scoobingsthe2nd]

Only criticism I seriously have right now is atmosphere. The planet in the sky looks out of place because we simply do not look like we're on another planet. You need to do something more to clue us in as to where we are, or nix the planet and make it take place on earth.

[skdr]

Only criticism I seriously have right now is atmosphere. The planet in the sky looks out of place because we simply do not look like we're on another planet. You need to do something more to clue us in as to where we are, or nix the planet and make it take place on earth.
It's not meant to be realistic. That planet just adds more to the map's look.

[Shmitz]

It's more a matter of consistency than realism. Some of the map puts me in mind of something like The Martian Chronicles, but then the rest of the map just seems like standard Earth/Desert/Industrial setting.

Take the atmosphere you've got going on in the diner and carry it through to the rest of the map. It doesn't have to be a heavy presence, just enough for thematic consistency. There are only a couple spots right now that make me say "this is redstone", as opposed to well or granary. You've got great visual identity in the diner and the center area though. I want to see more of it. =)

[Buddikaman]

I agree with those guys, i found the map design solid overall, the mapping itself was solid as well. But like said already, the theme just doesnt carry, i say nix the planet in the sky, as people will just wonder wtf is going on, it really doesnt add anything, or you could just change the map name to Cp_2Earths. ;)

As a tf2 env artist, id also have to comment on your custom props, the texturing is barely passable for tf2 styling(to much noise, not enough abstract), and the normal mapped rocket engine looks out of place, would have looked better with just a diffuse and spec/phong. Your colors are way oversaturated as well for the red and blu.

I think a tf2 space base theme could have been really really nice, i would have liked to have seen you go more in that direction considering you had the resources to do so, as it stands, it looks a bit to much like your average tf2map, in terms of styles, architecture, textures, ect to really distinguish itself from the crowd.

Still one of the better custom maps out though!

-Buddikaman-

[Noggin]

Yeah I have to agree with the above (boy were a tough crowd).

The space theme would be awesome, and I like the diner area/style too.
Outside could be martian land with a crashed rocket etc.

As always, getting this on public servers is the toughest part, cos you know Orange maps are so much better than this... ugh.

[ryodoan]

Screw continuity, I think the planet looks badass.

[YM]

Screw continuity, I think the planet looks badass.

QFT

[Pad See Ew]

Keep the planet. Geez.

I tested the other night and my criticisms/comments are at steampowered.

[Shmitz]

Screw continuity, I think the planet looks badass.

And I say praise continuity, make the rest of the map so that the planet fits better. :tongue_smilie:

[Scoobingsthe2nd]

continuity is important. If you have a schizophrenic theme (not saying that yours is just as example) then harms the overall quality of the map.

I would rather see you take the space theme further than remove the planet. I think the planet is cool, just right now it's out of place. As I see it to make this map even better you have two options:

Get rid of the planet (lazy man's route)

Carry your theme one step further and really put us somewhere different and unique.

I'd much rather see the second.

[Colt Seavers]

I'm really impressed with this map. So much so that after 1 playtest, i've made it this weeks TF2maps.net map, on the main Playground Teamplay server. We've just had a 12v12 on it and it plays really nicely. I can't comment with authority until i've had a few games on it - so will leave it in the rotation for the next week.

good work though mate 8-) Very nice indeed. I'll be looking at how forward spawns would work and hoping the engi's amongst us get the telporters up quick though, cos that quite a walk - but first impressions are very good indeed (and I say that having ran a huge amount of customs on the server over the months :D

see the 'all servers' stickie for the coltsplayground.net teamplay server ip :D

[Shmitz]

I have heard several people express the opinion that the layout is way too much like granary. I suppose that's a good thing for someone who has a fanatical love of granary, but for most people if they want to play granary, they'll probably just play granary. I'm not sure what you can do about that, since the layout is a much more fundamental part of the map than just how you're detailing it. If you want to make redstone really something unique though, I think you're going to need to be prepared to take the knife to the map and start pushing pieces around or removing parts.

[R3dRuM]

you own, nice map, nice everything, love the skybox too much :/, love the signs good job, 9/10 (nothings perfect)

[Colt Seavers]

played again tonight. still enjoying it alot. still not keen on the huge walk :P lazy git ;)

you should jump on and have a game with us mate - it'll be played every night this week i'd have thought - you'll get a good feel for how it's playing with 12v12 :w00t:

funnily enough i've just got really bored of granary - as we scrimmed it alot - so it's not in our rotation at the minute - this is a nice change of a similar style - and that in my opinion is no bad thing.

[ryodoan]

Personally I think it looks better and plays better than granary. My one comment that I had from the game day was that it seems like a very flat map as in most the action occurs on 1 plane but that might have just been because I could not find ramps up to balconies.

[Colt Seavers]

epic game on the teamplay server right now : 50 minutes left - jump on if you're awake :P

81.19.219.104:27015

[ryodoan]

epic game on the teamplay server right now : 50 minutes left - jump on if you're awake :P

81.19.219.104:27015

I was Awake, willing, and unfortunately, unable... :( stupid work....

[YM]

I was Awake, willing, and unfortunately, unable... :( stupid work....
sounds very Dr. Kleineresque

[lerlerson]

Hey, did you guys see the interview in which a Valve developer talks about Redstone? I can't find a link at the moment, but it's on the main website of the clan the topic creator is in (SK or something)

[drp]

Hey, did you guys see the interview in which a Valve developer talks about Redstone? I can't find a link at the moment, but it's on the main website of the clan the topic creator is in (SK or something)
the maker of redstone is a moderator over at the steampowered.com forums :)

[lerlerson]

the maker of redstone is a moderator over at the steampowered.com forums :)

Huh, that's cool, never knew that.

[Earl]

This map has been added to our server: 8.6.15.83:27015

Haven't yet had a chance to play it on a full server. Right now all I can tell you is that it's way too big for 2v2...

[Snipergen]

skr i want you here more on the forums to discuss with your new maps plz. Since you're in my top 1 of best mappers tbh.

[Ziggurat]

Hey, did you guys see the interview in which a Valve developer talks about Redstone? I can't find a link at the moment, but it's on the main website of the clan the topic creator is in (SK or something)

"Shack: Before I forget, I couldn't help but overhear you a minute ago talking about [Shacknews community member -sk-'s map] CP_Redstone.

Robin Walker: So what we do is every Tuesday and Thursday we try and play through community maps, and we have a big list, but we haven't gotten to Redstone, so I feel bad. I don't want to make design comments, it's just, we were talking about it, and I was saying how one of the interesting things in the community--there are different maps which catch your eye for different reasons. Redstone's screenshots caught my eye because I thought it was a really good example of how, just.. it's really fun to look out there and see people who are just customers of TF, who can kind of pick up the visual style and start to sort of put their own touch to it, but still fit in really neatly. And I thought Redstone did that really well, just looking at the screenshots. Can't comment on the gameplay yet. "

this is the interview: http://shacknews.com/featuredarticle.x?id=832

[l3eeron]

This is a tough map to kick start. The size alone is major road block. (just like cp_studio)...

It's a very large map, every time we get on, we get lost and frustrated. Its a million mile march to get to the fight. Even 16 on 16 would be alot of running, not playing.

I hate to say it, but he screen shots gave us all high hopes only to be let down by some major design flaws (IMO).... maybe advancing spawns is the solution?

[YM]

There are advancing spawns arent there? I've played it several times and there is no more running than any of the stock 5 cp maps so thats fine, layout is nice and simple, whilst detailed at the same time and I never get lost (although there is one turning I always take when I mean to take the next one....doh)
Seriously epic map and I can't fault it

[Vander]

BTW, this map was also mentioned in the PC Gamer Podcast a week ago. #127 if memory serves correct. They have good things to say about it.

[l3eeron]

Well, Im still hoping that I just haven't had the chance to see the map play out. I'm still trying to promote this map at my community. The few guys Ive been on it with, had the same feedback. It's big and confusing. Definitely pretty, and well stylized to fit the TF2 theme. Im afraid that people just dont like the well-nary/badlands set up. I think I'll set up a play tester night for this map and see what happens.

But, yaaaa......

No one ever wants to play it for some reason, Im completely miffed by it.

P.S. There probably is advancing spawns, Ive never had the pleasure of seeing them work though.