View Full Version : Ghost Town
03-18-2009, 12:26 AM
pl_ghost_town_a9 has been released.
This is hopefully the last alpha. I've altered where Blu spawns after capturing the second point, and added a forward spawn after the third point. Hopefully these relatively small changes help gameplay, and I can move on so that this "contest" map can finally be finished :-)
03-24-2009, 01:49 AM
Okay, so if you've spent any time in the tf2maps.net chat room over the past two days, you've probably seen a ton of screen shots of a5b, specifically the brand new 2nd point. But for those of you that haven't, here are a couple of shots just to prove to you that this is not dead. In fact, the *plan* is to go through and add entities tomorrow, get everything working, and release this version.
At the end of the area looking back, specifically at the train station.
Inside the end of the train station where blu enters (by jumping on the roof). You see through the wire to the red spawn. Note that the door closes after the first point is captured, making red take an alternate route.
Just a shot of the area. Note the cliff on the left side. Its a back entrance to the cave.
Another shot. You can see where the cart descends into the cave, and then exists again.
Just a little overview of this portion of the map.
Well, thats all I have for you guys today. Still tweaking some things and placing basic props. Hopefully I won't have any issues tomorrow and I'll be able to get it out right away, though I am a bit worried about setting up the platform that the cart goes down into the cave on, so if you have any advice there, it'd be great.
03-24-2009, 09:53 AM
Looking very good. Just a heads up, by the looks of the screenshot attached to the original thread post, it will be very confusing to learn the map, there are too many paths and you dont know where the main path is. Try to think about that. It will be very useful.
Seeing forward to this detailed! Keep it up! ;)
03-24-2009, 07:51 PM
a5b has been released. Look to the first post/top to see more info and find the download link.
Just a few things:
Dodgey hud- http://www.flickr.com/photos/28746141@N08/3384050771/
These props have no collision mesh, you can walk straight through the wood, I didn't check but you might also be able to hide SGs in there. Also you'll see the rock props are wireframe.. whats with that?? http://www.flickr.com/photos/28746141@N08/3384050749/
This is me stopping the platform from coming down just by standing under it (I had a bot on top). I waited a while afterwards and the lift went back up again, looked kinda wierd, expecially as there was a shower of sparks coming through the ceiling :laugh: - http://www.flickr.com/photos/28746141@N08/3384050809/
This area is also reeeealllly dark.
Some general comments about the whole map:
The distance between the start and first cap is reallly massive, I can't remember how well this played but I can't see it working well especially with the crawlling speed of the cart.
03-25-2009, 09:33 AM
Also you'll see the rock props are wireframe.. whats with that?? http://www.flickr.com/photos/28746141@N08/3384050749/
Is that one a public server? I saw something like this on my server when running Borax. Reloaded the map and it was fine. Not sure if thats the case here though.
Local server, i just used the create server button.
03-25-2009, 11:34 AM
I'm aware of the issues with the hud. It has to do with the fact that there are actually 4 cps in the map, though only 2 are active.
Hmmm, forgot to set those wood props to bounding box. However, I've never see the wireframe issue myself.
Bah, I had disabled the sparks when the cart moves back onto the platform and starts going up, but I never thought about sparks while the bomb is still on the platform. Thats an easy enough fix.
I'll add additional lighting in that area next build. Good note.
I'm also interested into how that cave plays. As you said, you were able to block the cart while standing underneath. I'll have to double check the size of my cap area, but there are other possibilities as well, such as making the area where the platform stops a pit (it was going to be anyways, just covered), or leaving it as is and seeing how palyers deal with it using the back door/main entrance.
As I recall, and it has been a few months, the first area played rather well, despite the length of the track. Now several things have changed since then, including the distance of the defenders to the point, but I'm hoping it plays as well as before. I'll need a gameday/more public testing to determine that.
Ty for the feedback! :-)
03-26-2009, 02:46 PM
a5c has been released. Look to the first post/top to see more info and find the download link.
04-01-2009, 02:28 PM
This map is awesome. We have had the last two versions on our server and have had many great matches on it, even though it only has 3/5 points and is only partialy textured.
Keep up the good work. The latest version banner is green so that means it is in our regular rotation.
04-05-2009, 04:43 PM
The map was quite fun during gameday, although slightly confusing the first round. Once I got the hang of the layout though it was a good time :). The map seems sort of cluttered, for lack of a better term. I think this is due to the track sort of doubling over itself (or so it seems), and sometimes the main path isn't quite clear, such as how you can go from Blue Spawn to the first capture point without ever going onto the lower ground to go near the cart. I wouldn't say it's a problem though, it worked well. I can't wait to see more of the map get fleshed out, there's just something extremely awesome about standing on rooftops that I can't quite put into words :P. One minor thing though, just looks a bit odd:
Also, as red, whenever I stood over the first midcap a sound like I was capturing it would come on, and then when I left a sound like a CP reverting back to 0% capped would happen, not sure what that is.
Well, hope that helps, looking forward to completion of the map!
04-05-2009, 05:02 PM
TY Mungo. Oddly enough, I had never noticed the issue with some of the ground clipping through the logs. That'll all be fixed when I turn brushes into displacements and whatnot. As for the sound, I've had some other people mention it, and I'm pretty sure I messed something up when setting up the entities in my payload test map.
05-10-2009, 02:59 AM
So I sat down and worked on this the past two days. Got most of the third point done, and I'm working on the 4th and some of the transition area between the two. I figured at the rate I'm going, I could probably have something ready for gameday next weekend, but then I remembered I have 2 midterms and a project due this week, so that probably won't happen. Still, it'll be nice for ghost town to be a full map again.
Overview of the new points:
Different view of the 4th point (so far). Note, thats a 512 height difference between where the cart enters and where it exits.
Finally, some older (as in Saturday afternoon/Friday night) shots of the third area.
05-12-2009, 11:30 PM
First post updated, a6 has been released.
05-12-2009, 11:49 PM
Your download link seems to be pointing to version a5c...
05-13-2009, 04:06 AM
Just checked. The file was correct, though the thread title was wrong. Fixed that now :-)
05-13-2009, 06:17 AM
hey,and what server is that raiting from? i badly need some testing
05-13-2009, 04:13 PM
its from the Calculated Chaos server. They do testing on Mondays and Tuesdays. There was a post on these forums somewhere, or you could go here:
05-16-2009, 12:55 PM
Note, a6a has been released to fix some minor issues in the previous version in time for gameday. See the change log in the first post for specifics.
05-17-2009, 01:46 PM
Played a6a today during game day testing. Like the layout. Looking forward to what you do with detail. Here are stats for 2 rounds I played: (1) Blu won. Close with only 20 seconds left. (2) Red won. Blu did not make it to point 1.
05-25-2009, 12:53 PM
First post updated, a7 has been released.
Hopefully not too many more of these :-)
The Political Gamer
05-25-2009, 01:03 PM
Sweet, this going to be in the next gameday?
05-25-2009, 04:06 PM
So long as it doesn't fill up within about 2 hours like it seemed to last week :)
05-31-2009, 03:36 PM
This played quite well. The buildings are quite well designed, from an aesthetic viewpoint, even despite the obvious dev textures on everything. It's a very, VERY long stage, though; might be best if you divided it into multiple rounds, like Goldrush (although it'd probably work fine as-is, regardless).
There was a few corridors that were literally pitch black, though; around RED's second spawn, it's a little bit off to the right when you're looking straight ahead. Kind of hard to explain without pictures (and alas, I didn't take any)... just run out and take a quick look around, you'll probably find it.
Also, the river immediately outside BLU's spawn; if you jump in, and look to the right (assuming you were facing away from BLU's spawn), you can see a large black void - apparently this is where the waterfall is for the river you fell into. It looks fine from above water, but when you're underwater, it's pretty ugly. I'll leave it to you how to best deal with that.
05-31-2009, 05:54 PM
Thanks Shadow Hog.
I'm pretty sure I know what you mean about the pitch black path. Its a ramp that goes down to the bottom area, and I had just forgotten to add lights there.
I also know what you mean about the water, and thats just because thats where the water ends and the to-be-done waterfall will begin. I'll have to think of something when I get to the detailing phase.
05-31-2009, 11:23 PM
I was confused with all the side buildings. I just ran into them not knowing where I was going, but it all seemed to lead 1 way eventually. Also the travel time is quite large if there is no engineers. Maybe have more forward spawns or shorten the track. I think there is way to many turns the cart has to make, which makes the level bigger than it needs to be. One example is when a cart has to go around a rock because of the track is broken. It looks nice and seems plausible, but its just unnecessary. Where the cart drops is a nice touch. If you want to split the map into rounds, that would be the place to do it. Near the end when the cart is going down. Not only is that area tight, but excessively long. Try to shorten the ramps.
I didnt feel one class was too powerful. Some spots are shaky (cant remember the spots), but some classes seemed overpowered there. Which is fine if you were going for that.
I dont think you need so many side buildings. In some spots yes, like where it goes into the tunnels and such. It keeps it nice and dynamic. In the open areas, there are just random buildings in places that I see no purpose in keeping. All the buildings seem to be connected some how. I am not sure if this is a good thing or bad. Good to keep the spam down on the cart. Bad because people get lost and are away from the cart. The building where you can fall off a log in a stream and go up the logs to get out. That building has no purpose for example. You can just have the logs go to the gravel, seems more logical than going into a building.
I thinks thats about it. I can tell you took some time and figuring out how to do the buildings and the layout. It is nice, but needs some tweaking to lessen confusion and travel time. Overall the game play seemed ok, maybe people were just too spread out. I felt the cart sometimes had no one on it because no one was around and not because they were dead. Since its such a big map, needs more health kits and ammo. Needs more signs also, i know its alpha, but having no signs is bad. Since its a payload one could just follow the track, but with all your side buildings it is hard to find your way in there.
06-16-2009, 11:01 AM
a8 has been released. See the first/top post for more information.
06-17-2009, 10:08 AM
I think the new pathway up top of point 1-2 is good. Unfortunately nobody built sentries up there last night so we could use it, but it was nice to get back around cart as it progressed further back by the 'wood overhang tunnel'.
I didn't use the new red path to the roof but did see others going up there, good idea I think.
I think once blu caps the thrid point there should be a foward spawn. Even with the new broken fence it's a very long hike to the last point.
I'm thinking the first building with point one would be a great place for a foward spawn, seems like there is enough room in the lower part of the building that a spawn could be squeezed into.
Not only would it help blu win but it would help keep action a bit higher towards the end of the round. And possibly force offensive engies to work a bit more.
It's also still far enough back that having an engi on blu would be good.
06-17-2009, 10:58 AM
I was distracted while I was playing this last night so I don't have a ton of feedback for you. I wil provide more as it comes up.
I really like the path between 1 and 2 that you added for blue to get to the roofs. It will help get past the second point for sure. I don't know if it fucks up the balance yet but it didn't seem to.
I think taking some of the curves out between 2 and the elevator was a good idea. That area always seemed like it was a little too long.
All the changes seem to be great so far. I think teams will be getting further into the map and that matches will be won and lost at the last point, yet it is still possible to stop/delay the blue team at every point.
http://gaming.calculatedchaos.com/demo/getTheDemo.png (http://gaming.calculatedchaos.com/demo/auto-20090616-2225-pl_ghost_town_a8.zip)http://gaming.calculatedchaos.com/images/viewTheThread.png (http://gaming.calculatedchaos.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=602)
06-17-2009, 12:05 PM
I was considering adding forward spawns last night, and where I would add them if I did.
Adding one of the second point would be easy, just put it somewhere in the warehouse building (right next to the point.
Adding one after the third point is captured (which makes a total of 4 spawns, heh) is more difficult, since it needs to be far enough forward to be useful, but not so far that capping the last point becomes too easy. My thoughts as of writing this are to add one to the blu building at the third point, on the left by the waterfall. This would put the exit near the shortcut bridge over the river, and right next to the path to head up stairs.
Of course, adding all these spawns means tweaking elsewhere to make up for things. Respawn wave times would obviously be higher for blu, and a bit lower for red. The max time will need to be capped (currently, you can get something like 15 minutes on the clock if you push hard), maybe around 10 mins. I'm also debating lowing the amount of time added after each point is capped, from 5, to maybe 3:30/4, but also increasing the time to the first point from 5 to 6.
Ty again Original and Cpt. Angry, I'll try and get those changes implemented before this weekend.
06-17-2009, 01:10 PM
I think it would be best to add one forward spawn after 3. The two obvious places to me thinking back are either at the warehouse near point 2 or at the elevator. It will give blue a good segway into the final push but it wouldn't be so close that you would have to make the 4th point harder to cap. Since the second point is now easier to cap and since you already have paths that speed up the walk from spawn to point 1 when you don't have to push the cart, I don't think you really need a forward spawn after point 2
The walk from spawn to 1, 2, and 3 didn't feel too long. You didn't start feeling like you were walking forever until you got past the third point.
Also, I personally hate when spawn points move right next to the cap area as soon as you cap it in payload. It sets the red team up for failure.
The way I see it go down, which isn't a whole lot of fun, is like this:
The blue team has a huge push with half of their team to cap the point.
More than half of the blue team dies taking out SGs and fighting of demomen, but a few blue manage to stay on the cart and push it. At this time, there are still enough red guys incoming and still alive to kill everyone on the cart or stall blue a little while while people setup on the next point.
Now if there is a blue spawn that is now right next to the capped point, all those blue guys that just died are now immediately on the cart and probably outnumber red. This means that red has a harder time stalling blue and has less time to setup on the next point.
i'm ranting at this point so i'll stop.
06-17-2009, 04:57 PM
I think captian is right. Just one spot around the second point after blu caps the 3rd. It wont change things too much and it'll help blu. Plus the end will be more exciting, not so spread out.
I really don't care for alot of spawns in any map, but especially payload. It kills any offensive engies. It's already hard enough to keep up teles that are worthwhile. Then if every point moves the spawn foward it's impossible.
I think if you add a spawn at the 2nd point the respawn times could almost stay the same. At most shorten them by half the walk from spawn to second.
(I'm thinking second point is in the first building you have to go through. I could be thinking of cap 1 though.) The tunnel with the chicken wire straight across from blu spawn.
06-17-2009, 05:25 PM
Alright, did a quick paint over of the overview so we can make sure we're all talking about the same thing :-)
Current spawn points are numbered in order, and colored depending on the team that owns them. Both teams shift from their first spawn room to their second when the second point is captured.
Capture points are colored in purple Xs, and numbered.
Light green numbers indicate potential sites for other spawns, with the light pink arrows showing the exits.
I'm thinking of moving a spawn room out of the train station (currently Blu 2) and making it a cave exit at green 3. This would make it harder for Blu to attack the 3rd point, since it is not as close as the current spawn, as well as spawning them behind the cart, and in a safer place than they are now (one time I saw 8 engies build sgs outside of the door). This new spawn would have two exits, a lower one which exits at the height of the track, and an upper one which exits closer to the door that leads into the blue building at the 3rd point.
Green 4 would become active once the third point is captured, there to attack the final point. This would exit into the blue building, where players can go left across the river and either up stairs or the normal way by the track. Moving a spawn to Green 3, and adding 4, means 4 is a significant move up.
Green 2 is just an idea, adding another spawn right when the first point is captured. I don't really want to do this, since as you have said, a ton of spawns in payload is bad, and I don't like it either. However, it is pretty much the only place I could add on there. Hopefully further testing of the new side path will determine if its needed or not.
06-19-2009, 07:37 PM
Played this today during testing, and a just one nitpick I encountered.
Between points 3 and 4, I got stuck between the cart and geometry/props in a few areas, where it violently jostled my character. Might want to see if it can be a bit wider (though not too much, as chokeponts are obviously critical).
Otherwise it's definitely got some excellent progress, I look forward to seeing the next versions.
06-20-2009, 10:22 AM
Sorry Darker, I guess I had missed the foward blu spawn before. I swear the last time I played blu was ALWAYS spawning at spawn 1. But after capping 3 last night I realized there was a foward spawn. I don't know how I missed it before. Maybe because it is a large map and it takes alot of playtime to get familiar with all of it.
So that pretty much cancels out most of what I said before. Moving the spawn over the the green 3 might help a bit. It was tough coming straight out of foward spawn into enemies. At that time I was trying to set up teleports but ran into someone everytime and never got it done.
I don't think Blu needs more than 2 spawns really. I still stand by the attacking engi/teleport comment.
08-23-2009, 10:48 PM
Just an update bump. Its been a while :-)
08-24-2009, 01:04 AM
Oh YES! :D It's still alive!
08-24-2009, 10:05 PM
Yar, but its moving at a...well, I was going to snail's pace, but that might insult the snail. 14 hour work days ftl.
The Political Gamer
08-24-2009, 10:21 PM
Please please please make this a 3 stage (2,2,2-4) or at least a 2 stage! (4,4) It would play so much better and I really like this map. :crying:
08-25-2009, 11:09 PM
You know Political, I was thinking about it tonight, and while I've resisted doing any round based iterations of this map (they just wouldn't work without major revisions, and even then its really, really iffy), I may do it. However, it would be as a different map, allowing for two versions of the map, but like I said vastly diffferent (pl_bodie and pl_ghost_town maybe).
08-27-2009, 10:29 PM
Had a few hours to do some work today. Just did a little around the Blu first spawn. Texturing and displacements. Still need to do props, lighting, and then signs/overlays and other misc stuff. Then I can cross the river :-)
Also, and this is to Political, what are your thoughts on where to break up the map to make it a goldrush style. I was thinking do the first area (2 points) and add stuff to make it longer, with the 2st point near the cave and the the final where it is now. The second round would be the second area, with 2 or 3 points, one at the elevator (after it comes down), and then the other a bit further on beyond where the 2nd currently is. The final round would be 3 points, with one in the third area, another before the decending ramps above the fourth area, and the final at the end.
08-28-2009, 04:57 AM
If you can make it just as fun (man, I love walking over roofs!) as the versions I've played in single payload mode, I think it's a good idea.
The Political Gamer
08-28-2009, 07:24 PM
OK after taking a quick run around the map I think you should go with a 4-2, in other words a 8 point, 2 stage map. With this in mind I outlined approximately were I think all the points should go.
08-30-2009, 10:07 PM
Displacements ftl. And this is just the first area :-/ Maybe 1/4th of the way done there?
09-04-2009, 02:32 PM
I played this map on gameday (I only played this and Cauldron). Unfortunately, I think the map is really too big - there are multiple paths for blu to help advance the cart but before CP3 it became a chokepoint of sorts, took us a while to get past there.
But blu never won a match. I don't know if it was the case before since it's my first time playing this map, but seems like blu has a hard time pushing the cart past the third point?
On the next round blu didn't push past the first CP (I think it was the first, the point in the building) since I setup a sentry next to the point and it's really hard to take out.
Judging from a runthru during gameday and a quick look at the overview of the map, the payload track is too winding. I'd suggest shortening unnecessary distances (like open area u-turns?) or splitting up the map, I guess.
11-25-2009, 04:53 PM
So I was planning on making a blog post explaining how work is a pain in the ass and it removes a huge portion of my free time, even that time not spent at work due to physical and mental exhaustion. Instead, I figured I'd just state very briefly that this project is not dead, that I have more free time now, particularly this week, to devote to this map, that I would like to get this and the associated goldrush style map truly finished asap so I can work on 3 or so other maps I have in mind, as well as a possible L4D campaign.
So... here are some various shots of the first area, spawnroom, and warehouse. I'm almost finished with the warehouse and am moving into the second large area, dubbed "The Town." Hopefully beta1 will be half finished, detailing wise, by the end of this week (the last two points should be easier, particularly due to the lack of displacements in the final area). I'll still need to go through and optimize (a process I'll have to learn first :-/) as well as procure the talents of a modeler/texturer to make a decent sized amount of custom content for this project.
ETA is uncertain, because while I plan on releasing the first beta prior to the addition of custom content, it would be best for everyone if it was after at least some optimization. Oh, and there is another detailing contest afoot, which could very well take up my time for a few days, especially since multiple entries are allowed :-/
Ugly shadows, etc, to be removed when I do a complete compile.
11-29-2009, 02:16 AM
A flood of pictures from the second area, which I have been working on for the past 2/3 days. Final is an overview to see my progress. Should be able to finish the rest of it (not counting the transitional building to the next area) this weekend, then things will slow down as I have to go back to work. So much to do, so little time.
YouTube- Robocop - "I like it"
12-06-2009, 09:26 PM
Working at a snails pace will get you this far in a week:
The Political Gamer
12-06-2009, 09:33 PM
Looking good Darker! BTW Have you done anything about how far the cap points are? I know the HUD supports up to 8 now so I does not have to be more then one stage.
12-06-2009, 10:27 PM
Huh, didn't know they bumped up the points to 8 now. No, I haven't messed with the layout at all since a9 (though I will do a little change in the fourth area). I'm not sure if I will either, since I plan on doing a multi round version anyways, though if more people give it a shot when its beta and I get mass scale feedback on how succesful that map is in its current state (or not), then I'll actually be able to make that call.
12-30-2009, 01:55 AM
*fingers crossed* Finishing the first detail pass tomorrow. Still have:
Second detail pass.
Generate custom content and add in (what I can do myself).
Release b1 and find people to make other custom content.
b1 most likely won't include a skybox, or a lot of other fancy detailing stuff I'll do later on when I have a) some more feedback, b) custom stuff and c) more time.
Oh man oh god oh man oh god Ghost Town!! http://www.facepunch.com/fp/emoot/neckbeard.gif
12-30-2009, 07:44 AM
Really nice !
01-10-2010, 11:30 PM
Anyways, finished detail pass 1 yesterday/this morning. Sealed the map too. Next up is detail pass 2, which should add environment detail (stuff between buildings, rocks/shrubs, cleaning up where the sky is, etc). Then its optimization time!
And just in case you'd like to take a look...
Object names Objects/Maxobjs Memory / Maxmem Fullness
------------ --------------- --------------- --------
models 115/1024 5520/49152 (11.2%)
brushes 5941/8192 71292/98304 (72.5%)
brushsides 44290/65536 354320/524288 (67.6%)
planes 19482/65536 389640/1310720 (29.7%)
vertexes 38244/65536 458928/786432 (58.4%)
nodes 8248/65536 263936/2097152 (12.6%)
texinfos 2528/12288 182016/884736 (20.6%)
texdata 180/2048 5760/65536 ( 8.8%)
dispinfos 1060/0 186560/0 ( 0.0%)
disp_verts 26724/0 534480/0 ( 0.0%)
disp_tris 34304/0 68608/0 ( 0.0%)
disp_lmsamples 1812252/0 1812252/0 ( 0.0%)
faces 22750/65536 1274000/3670016 (34.7%)
hdr faces 0/65536 0/3670016 ( 0.0%)
origfaces 17315/65536 969640/3670016 (26.4%)
leaves 8364/65536 267648/2097152 (12.8%)
leaffaces 28170/65536 56340/131072 (43.0%)
leafbrushes 11405/65536 22810/131072 (17.4%)
areas 2/256 16/2048 ( 0.8%)
surfedges 185675/512000 742700/2048000 (36.3%)
edges 116143/256000 464572/1024000 (45.4%)
LDR worldlights 155/8192 13640/720896 ( 1.9%)
HDR worldlights 0/8192 0/720896 ( 0.0%)
leafwaterdata 6/32768 72/393216 ( 0.0%)
waterstrips 2987/32768 29870/327680 ( 9.1%)
waterverts 0/65536 0/786432 ( 0.0%)
waterindices 62109/65536 124218/131072 (94.8%) VERY FULL!
cubemapsamples 1/1024 16/16384 ( 0.1%)
overlays 340/512 119680/180224 (66.4%)
LDR lightdata [variable] 14823024/0 ( 0.0%)
HDR lightdata [variable] 0/0 ( 0.0%)
visdata [variable] 1206894/16777216 ( 7.2%)
entdata [variable] 320658/393216 (81.5%) VERY FULL!
LDR ambient table 8364/65536 33456/262144 (12.8%)
HDR ambient table 8364/65536 33456/262144 (12.8%)
LDR leaf ambient 40905/65536 1145340/1835008 (62.4%)
HDR leaf ambient 8364/65536 234192/1835008 (12.8%)
occluders 0/0 0/0 ( 0.0%)
occluder polygons 0/0 0/0 ( 0.0%)
occluder vert ind 0/0 0/0 ( 0.0%)
detail props [variable] 1/158440 ( 0.0%)
dtl prp lght [variable] 1/4 (25.0%)
HDR dtl prp lght [variable] 1/4 (25.0%)
static props [variable] 1/177720 ( 0.0%)
pakfile [variable] 6992/0 ( 0.0%)
physics [variable] 2194784/4194304 (52.3%)
physics terrain [variable] 215348/1048576 (20.5%)
The Political Gamer
01-11-2010, 05:50 AM
Looking really good darker!
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