CP_Blu Mesa

[Scotland Tom]

CP_Blu Mesa

Lastest update: 2/18/08
+Progress percentage update.

The Basics:
Dustbowl style with 2 rounds only. 2 Capture Points per round.
Red will be the attacking team. Blu defends.

Theme:
Red has been digging in preparation for creating a new hidden underground base only to discover that Blu already has a presence in the area. Red attacks, determined to put an end to the Blu menace in this region and claim the zone for themselves. Little does Red realize that the nearby generic concrete bunker and high-tech milk processing plant only serve as a smokescreen for a fully operational Blu facility primed to rain destruction upon the Reds and their operation. Will the underdog Reds capture the Blu facility and achieve victory? Or will they be thoroughly squashed by the entrenched Blus?

Goals:
+ To create a highly enjoyable map worthy to see rotation alongside Valve maps. (Lofty, I know.)
+ Plenty of action and minimum downtime during play
+ Opportunities for each class to be useful
+ Minimize areas in which a single class may dominate (ie. sniper whores and demo spam)
+ Eliminate or minimize the possibility of spawn killing
+ Visually stimulating environment worthy of the TF2 style

Progress (Approximate):
First Red Spawn ........................ 95%
First Battle Area ........................ 90%
First CP .................................... 95%
Second Battle Area .................... 50%
Second CP ................................ 0%
First Blue/Second Red Spawn ..... 0%
Third Battle Area ....................... 0%
Third CP .................................... 0%
Fourth Battle Area ...................... 0%
Fourth CP .................................. 0%
Second Blue Spawn ................... 0%

Overall ..................................... 30%

WIP Screenshots:

2/9/08
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee136/ScotlandTom/Game%20Screenshots/cp_blumesa_a60000.jpg

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee136/ScotlandTom/Game%20Screenshots/cp_blumesa_a60002.jpg

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee136/ScotlandTom/Game%20Screenshots/cp_blumesa_a60004.jpg

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee136/ScotlandTom/Game%20Screenshots/cp_blumesa_a60006.jpg

1/29/08
CP_BluMesa 5 - First Battle Area (http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee136/ScotlandTom/Game%20Screenshots/cp_blumesa_a40000.jpg)
CP_BluMesa 6 - First Battle Area (http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee136/ScotlandTom/Game%20Screenshots/cp_blumesa_a40005.jpg)
CP_BluMesa 7 - First Battle Area (http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee136/ScotlandTom/Game%20Screenshots/cp_blumesa_a40001.jpg)
CP_BluMesa 8 - First Battle Area (http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee136/ScotlandTom/Game%20Screenshots/cp_blumesa_a40002.jpg)

1/19/08
CP_BluMesa 1 - Red Spawn (http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee136/ScotlandTom/Game%20Screenshots/cp_blumesa_a20001.jpg)
CP_BluMesa 2 - Red Spawn (http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee136/ScotlandTom/Game%20Screenshots/cp_blumesa_a20004.jpg)
CP_BluMesa 3 - Red Spawn (http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee136/ScotlandTom/Game%20Screenshots/cp_blumesa_a20005.jpg)
CP_BluMesa 4 - Red Spawn (http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee136/ScotlandTom/Game%20Screenshots/cp_blumesa_a20006.jpg)

Comments and constructive criticism are always welcome. Check back for semi-regular updates!

[Youme]

That looks like a massive spawn room. sounds like a good idea for a map as well.
Those screens look very impressive, if the rest of the map is of the same quility it will be excelent no doubt.
Look forwards to more!

[Scotland Tom]

Thanks! It may look massive, but it feels just about right in-game. The actual spawn room itself is the immediate area containing the supply cabinet and the maintenance shed, the corridors leading away are Red's tunnels to the main battle area. They aren't part of the spawn, but only Red will have access to them.

[Youme]

Ah, that sounds about right then. cp_blumesa? running with the hl1 thing then?
If you are calling it mesa because of the environment rather than because of half life can I direct you here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesa).

[Scotland Tom]

As far as TF2 is concerned it's named Blu Mesa simply because of the environment the Blu facility happens to be in. And for anyone who knows anything about HL it's a fun reference, nothing more.

[Haas]

Please don't use that rock texture its awfull!
I also used it to manu on my map and after i changed it it was much much better!

[Youme]

rockwall001 is just a teeny bit too repeptative, its a good texture, but works best from a reasonable distance and scaled to 0.8-0.3
rockwall002 is good for all sorts of walls and doesn't repeat too much at all good scales are anything from 0.25 to 0.8.
rockwall004-7 are the best, they barely repeat at all and are scaleaboy up to 1.5 without too much loss of quality being apparent. The only problem with those ones is they don't tile vertially so if you have a very tall cliff then you have to scale them up loads.
cliff_terrain03 sucks. Its a really naff texture and repeats loads, looks bad at all scales although using it at anything less than 0.5 is pure insanity. I see this texture in so many costom maps at 0.25 scale and to be perfectly honest it makes the map look crap. Even if everything else is really nice this texture used on cliffs too much makes it look horrid.

As far as I can tell you are using rockwall001 which looks fine, perhaps you should scale it up a little to 0.3 or 0.4, but even if you leave it as it is its fine. Honestly I don't see Haas' probleb with it

Edit: The third screen, the one with the lamp behind the cart: you have your lightsource very close to the surface of the rockwall texture, you have some odd looking dark lines around the areas that should be shadowed by the normal map try moving the lightsource further away from the wall to get a better normal map shadowing

[Scotland Tom]

Thanks for the feedback regarding the rock textures. rockwall001 is alright and it is the first texture I really decided to try, but the repetition does become a little obvious at times. I'll work with it and see what I can come up with. So far I think I've broken up most of the walls using that texture well enough that it doesn't look that bad, but I may change it in the corridors (which are still incomplete - displacements and more detail work to come!)

The lighting is also certainly subject to change. I agree that the lamp is having some strange effects on that wall in the corridor. Right now the lamps are mostly to light the area enough to see. As I finish off the corridors I'll probably move the lights around anyway.

Speaking of lights, that lamp over the maintenance shed isn't exactly complete. I'd like there to be a nice bright glow from the light itself, but I'm not sure how to accomplish that effect. (I'm better with brushes than with entities currently.) So any help with that would be appreciated.

[Youme]

Ahhh, what you need is a point_spotlight
That entity makes a nice beam in the direction you want and it adds a bright glow at its source. looks good for lights.

[DrHaphazard]

Heh well I am impressed, and yeah Blu Mesa is a great HL1 reference.

[Rock]

Impressive first looks.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j207/skipatc/Rocks-UberBar.png
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j207/skipatc/Gamer.png

[Voztron]

Looking nice for a pre alpha screenshot. Hope the rest of the map looks just as good!

[greenridge]

try painting some alpha on a floor displacement with blendrockground002/004/005

[Scotland Tom]

I had planned on doing that, but right now I'm having a problem with the alpha on some of the blend textures I've tried using. In-game I wind up with a strange glowing checkered pattern in the alpha regions. If anyone can give me a reason and a fix for this it would be most appreciated.

[Youme]

That is a missing normal map, its a problem with certain textures because valve decided not to use them they just left them broken. Just use another texture

[Scotland Tom]

That seems rather idiotic. I suppose I'll have to find the good textures then.

[Scotland Tom]

I think it's about time for an update. Don't you?

The Red spawn and tunnel area is about 95% complete. The spawn doors still need to be added and some fine tuning needs to be done in other areas, but I think it's good enough to move on. What I've been working on for the past few days is the battle area leading to the first CP. It's incomplete, as you'll see, but a good chunk of the blocking in, displacements and texture work has been done. Good enough to show anyway.

In the following screenshots you'll be able to see the exits from the Red spawn/tunnels in the cliff face. The first CP is inside the (still orange) building up the ramps. Most of the water you see is deep enough to crouch in and put out fire. Combined with some health and ammo in the middle of the water area it should keep that area active despite the fact that the only routes up to the CP are the ramps on either side. Also, though the area may look somewhat large, a spy can cloak, exit the Red doorways, and make it into the CP building a few seconds before the cloak runs out. I think the distance to run is pretty comparable with the run to the first CP in dustbowl.

If you have any thoughts on the map as far as gameplay goes two of the shots should allow for some analysis of the battlefield. Any input is always appreciated. Enjoy the screens!

(EDIT: Updates will now be made to the first post. Check back there for screens and other info)

[Haas]

looks very good.
Only point will be if snipers will be overpowered if there in that window and camping at the exit of the mine.

[Scotland Tom]

I realized sniper-whores could become an issue the way I've designed the map, so I've done my best to mitigate the potential problem without completely destroying the sniper's ability to be an effective team member.

With the tower on the Blu side (that snipers shouldn't be able to get onto) combined with the rocks I've already placed, Blu sniper line of sight has already been broken, so getting a good shot is a little more challenging. Red has 2 exit doors that should remain completely out of view of most sniping locations on the Blu side. Also, I've provided an area above the main Red exit doors for Red snipers to counter-snipe.

Two of my major concerns with creating the Red spawn points are snipers and demomen. If there's one thing I don't think anyone can stand it's running out of the spawn area and getting instantly killed by stickies or snipers. At this point I think it'll just take some playtesting to find out if the measures I've taken to prevent those things will be effective.

[Youme]

Sniper whores are a real problem as a mapper but no matter, it looks like that area is well balanced.

Looks great! (do you have to swim in the deepest part of that water?)

[Scotland Tom]

Nope, swimming slows down the pace of the map. The water will be just deep enough that you can crouch down and put out a fire if need be. Otherwise you'll just run right through it.

[Youme]

Good stuff :D I have a map with a little water in it and if you went into the middle you would wobble up and down as it became too deep to stand and then too shallow to swim, the result was ugly. Fixed now though.
Back on topic, I can't wait to play your map it looks really good :D

[Scotland Tom]

Yeah, I'm having that same issue right now too. I had it fixed at one point, then I did the displacement work and now I have to fix it again.

I figure as soon as I get the first two CP's done I'll probably do an Alpha release for playtesting on the first round area while I work on the second two CP's. So, as long as I don't get into a rut or get stuck somewhere, my guess is that the Alpha release should be ready in... oh... a while. :P

[Youme]

I get an alpha release out within 12 hours of mapping time, otherwise If I spend ages making it look nice it might play terribly and then be hard to change.
Luckily for me I've got a constantly full server handy with a low ping to get alpha maps on, everyone is really posetive about them and points out bugs.

[Scotland Tom]

I've got a few friends that help me out, but certainly not a full server to drop a map into whenever I wish. Part of my issue is simply my mapping style. If I were to block an entire map out for a quick alpha release I'd bog myself down later with tweaking all the little mistakes I made in the quick build. I'm already running into that with the building around the first CP.

To offset the limitations I've imposed with my mapping style I spend an inordinate amount of time thinking about the gameplay and the flow of the map. I play other maps to see what works and what doesn't. I do plenty of sketching and I frequently compile my map and hop in to experiment with the various classes and how they might be played. Simply doing those things allowed me to foresee the potential sniping problems I was creating with the basic layout.

Everybody's technique is different. I'm confident mine will pan out, but if it doesn't... well, I'll learn something.

[Scotland Tom]

My first post will now be the place to check for new screens and info. The update today doesn't include any new screens, but it organizes information and provides a breakdown of my progress.

I've taken a few days off from mapping, but I'll start again either later today or tomorrow. Hopefully I'll be able to show off some progress within a few days.

EDIT: Apologies for double posting. I typically only do so if sufficient time has passed and/or I have something new to add worthy of being it's own post.

[Scotland Tom]

New update!

Well the first CP is just about completed (see original post for screens.) Still some detailing work to do and perhaps some lighting changes, but overall it's looking pretty good. I've also (finally) begun blocking in the next portion of the map. I've planned myself into a bit of a tough spot with some displacements and curved walls, but I should be able to manage.

Gameplay looks like it'll be good so far. I haven't tested with many people, but with the few that I have it seems like various classes will all have roles to play and avenues of attack/defense to use.

Things are coming along. Slowly perhaps, but I'm pleased.

EDIT: I also have a question to those more knowledgeable than I. In the third screenshot I've posted, in the lower right corner you can see the CP is on a slightly raised platform. The sides of the platform are intended to appear lit. Right now I only have a blank white texture on them, but I would actually like these areas to be a light source. Would it work best to use light entities or change the texture into a light emitting material? What's the best method for accomplishing this?

[Youme]

Its looking lovely, only a few things I should point out:
First shot - the cliff looks repeated, try stretching your texture (maybe even rotating by about 30 degrees it if the texture loops vertically aswell as horizontally)
The railing fence, casting a nasty shadow, try turning off shadows for them and using a blocklight textured brush for each endpole
Third shot - You have a veeeerrrry strong blue light there, as a rule of thumb coloured lights are a no no. They can look good but if you want to colour an area with lighting instead of textures i'd advise a much, much more muted colour. Also if a red player can get under the blue light they will probably look like a blue player, not so good.
I'd use a light emmiting texture rather than light entities. I don't know a huge deal about them so I can't give mroe advice.
Final shot - I'm not keen on the idea of a glass floor. but thats just a personal preference. It looks like the floor gets quite thin and unstable.
The support beams are too bland, try using one of the metal beam textures on the front facing sides to make them look like some I bars (this font makes the I shape hard to see, but i'm sure you know what I mean)

Edit: In future, bump up your GFX settings when taking screenshots, It makes it harder for people like me (who have gfx settings maxed out) to think it looks good. Also, it doesn't matter if you lag like a bitch whilst taking screenshots, its not like you are actually playing the game at the same time is it?

[Scotland Tom]

As always, your advice and input is extremely helpful, Youme!

In regards to the first shot: Thanks for the advice about the fence shadows. I didn't like them either, but I wasn't sure what I could do. As for the cliff texture, yep I agree it's a bit repetitious. I'm not a huge fan of the cliff as a whole simply because it's so plain. I'll mess with the scaling and rotation, but that cliff is one of the reasons that area is only 95% complete. I'd like to do something else with it to make it more interesting, I just haven't decided what.

In the third shot: I generally steer away from a very strongly colored light source like that, but in this case I wanted something to give the room some extra punch. The CP room is otherwise very evenly lit and doesn't have a lot going on. The room in which the light exists cannot be entered, but is there for visual interest. The light prop itself is from the spytech props and is a siren or warning light of some kind with the blue skin instead of the red. Close up it makes sense, but it's something I'm sure I'll be tweaking right up until release.

In the final shot: I thought the glass floor added something to an otherwise fairly architecturally bland room. I also enjoy being able to let players see each other without shooting each other. It actually makes for some interesting strategy. (ie. can I really put a sentry gun where it can be seen through those windows? Can I really use that space under the glass floor to uncloak or disguise as a spy?) In the TF2 universe I think the support structure around the floors is enough to explain away the fact that they may not be the most realistic idea. As for the supports themselves... yeah, probably too bland. I didn't want to use the same metal "I" beam texture I have been using in other areas, but I'll see if I can find something else to use.

Finally, you're right, I didn't bump up my settings this time around. Even though on my computer bumping up to decent screenshot settings gives me an average framerate of about 10, I'll make sure to crank things up for all my future shots. For beta and release shots I'll hand the map over to a friend of mine who has a beast of a machine that will display it in all its glory.

Thanks again for the comments! Since you seem to be the only one keeping tabs here I'll have to trust your advice implicitly.

[Youme]

For your cliff you should take a look at the gravel pit cliffs. I think you should posibly add in some Zaxis shifting so you have higher bits and lower bits, also, add some rocks sticking out at the top or bottom, Either rock props or some more complicated displacements (not that complex really, just a brush with more than one side as a displacement)
You could add some wooden supports holding sections of the cliff up, like in dustbowl.
I think your metal rooves are just a little bland, I'd think about adding one of those corrugated metal sheet props here and there.
For the glass floor, maybe you should raise the glass up so it is flush (or almost flush) with the top of the floor and add some thin beams underneath the glass in an X shape (corner to coner, not like a window) That would make it look a little more stable whilst still having a see though floor.

[Scotland Tom]

Yeah, a friend of mine brought up the glass issue as well. We agreed adding some more reinforcement type bars would probably allow me to keep the glass a bit more realistically. I like your idea on that particularly so that's what I might run with.

I'll probably have to take a solo run through some of the Valve maps again to get some more ideas it seems. Some of the things you've mentioned are part of the reasons I haven't labeled these areas 100% complete yet. Things can always be added/changed.

[Youme]

long time since the last post about blu_mesa... any new info/screenies?

[Scotland Tom]

Thanks for being someone who actually remembers my map, Youme!

I've worked on it a bit, but I ran into a bit of what you might call "mappers block." I had a plan, but as I started mapping it out in Hammer it didn't seem to be going as intended. I also have a few things besides mapping to focus on so a break was almost necessary anyway. I could actually post a few new screens. Perhaps I'll do that sometime today.

Rest assured I haven't forgotten about BluMesa and I'll continue to plug away at it.

[Youme]

/me encourages and demands an update!

[Jeebies]

/me encourages and demands an update!

I 2nd that. This map is looking really good so far and I think it would be fun.

I understand mapper's block - I'm experiencing it myself. It helps me to just keep moving to different parts of the map and focusing on different aspects of mapping. When I get tired of doing detail I go to another area and work on layout, etc. Just try not to get bogged down on one thing.