Thunderhead

[Jazz]

PLR_THUNDERHEAD

Thunderhead will be a 3 stage Payload Race map.

-Current Version: Alpha 4

Tell me if the download link doesn't work for any of you.
If it doesn't, just go ahead and download it here... (http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?o2znz3twznz)

[Fireman]

Whoa, immediate first impression from those screens: wayyyy too dark! Add in some additional lighting, please :)

[Jazz]

Whoa, immediate first impression from those screens: wayyyy too dark! Add in some additional lighting, please :)

Ugh, Fine. I might as well take some new screenies too.

EDIT: Ok, brightened things up for your liking :]

[YM]

Ugh, Fine. I might as well take some new screenies too.
EDIT: Ok, brightened things up for your liking :]

keep going ;)

[Jazz]

keep going ;)

:|

I don't really know what to say... I just noticed on one of my monitors the map looks much darker, but on my primary monitor it looks pretty bright... I will try my best to give you a comparison shot between my two monitors so I can show you what I am seeing.

http://www.no-moral.com/compare.png

Tell me if the left one looks bright enough for you... Also, my brightness on primary isn't cranked up, its about halfway bright.

[TheDarkerSideofYourShadow]

Left looks alright. Would largely be a matter of how you place lights within the map.

[Fireman]

Just downloaded and ran through the map, and it looks like the darkness was due to some odd setting on your monitor. It could still stand to be a bit brighter, but that's for later versions. Overall the layout seems solid, though you'd probably want to add gates to the side tunnels, right now you can run into the other team's start area during setup.

[Jazz]

Ok, it's not getting any brighter than this, folks.

http://www.no-moral.com/thunderhead1.png
(Other pics are in first post)

[HeaH]

That's very dark, still

[Jazz]

Ok, screw this. It looks absolutely 100% fine to me. I have no idea what I am doing wrong. One of my steam friends says it looks fine, another says its still too dark.

There has to be SOMEBODY here who thinks the map looks fine.

[Jonah]

Instead of looking for people who think it's fine as it is, you should make it so that everybody thinks it's fine. And that means brighter. I mean look at pipeline, it's a night map but like two times brighter, or more.

[Zanpa]

You won't be able to see anyone hiding in corners.
It isn't only a matter of how good it looks ; it's also a problem of gameplay.

However, I think it's good to have a gameplay quite different of Pipeline :)

[Ravidge]

On dark maps, lighting is your friend, only going by the light_environment settings is very misleading to how the map will/should look.

Try this lighting library I made: http://forums.tf2maps.net/showthread.php?t=7011
Give the lights/effects some warm colors and im sure your map will look a lot more interesting.

[Loc_n_lol]

Definetly too dark, increasing the gamma in-game won't change it. Empower those light entities, you want the brightness to be in the vincinity of 1000 for a light_spot. Look at how Valve did it on pipeline.

Also if I had one critic it would be : you're making a payload race set in the pipeline environment ? :p
I mean, there are many combinations of existing environments and gametypes to try...

[Tinker]

Uh, stop trying to get "moonlight" to light your whole map. You'll have normal lights later, which will make it more than bright enough.

[An Icy Mouse]

Uh, stop trying to get "moonlight" to light your whole map. You'll have normal lights later, which will make it more than bright enough.

THIS

There should be hardly any moonlight lighting your map, what you've got now or less. you need lots of light fixtures to add light, just take a quick look at what pipeline has got.

[DaBeatzProject]

See what the lighting settings in pipeline are. You should use those. And don't forget to add loads of other light sources, it's not only about the environmental light. Looking good so far!

[Ross_C]

Basically:

BLU : Light Blue Florescent Lights
RED : Orange Florescent Lights

That should work.

[Nineaxis]

Pipeline works with the night skybox because there ARE LIGHTS IN THE MAP. It's not entirely lit by the ambient light, and because of varying monitor brightness settings, different people see your map differently. But if it had some LIGHTS, that wouldn't matter.

[Loc_n_lol]

Basically:

BLU : Light Blue Florescent Lights
RED : Orange Florescent Lights

That should work.

This may sound like a good idea but it can look absolutely horribly wrong. If you want to use team colored lighting, make sure the color is VERY subtle.

Also, I hadn't realised there was only environmental lighting in the screens. :blushing:

[Zeewier]

when you look in the decompiled pipeline you see some light spots that just cast light from the sky, no visible source. You should check those ;)

[Loc_n_lol]

when you look in the decompiled pipeline you see some light spots that just cast light from the sky, no visible source. You should check those ;)

I think those are meant to represent the light from the 'many bulbs hanging from a cable' things, in a more simple and efficient way than assigning a light for every single bulb (this would probably look either too dark or overbright depending on te brightness used)

[HojoTheGreat]

LOL. While the screenshots still look too dark I'm willing to concede that until I play it in-game I'm not going to judge. It's not somethign to get riled up over however, for now just focus on the layout and if you're first test is full of players saying it's too dark, well, there you go. Otherwise you're chill!

Anyway I love the concept of the loop around onto a sniper roost, however it looks like you may have a problem after a cart passes into a teams base. Each opposing team needs to be able to loop behind eachother enough that they can get on the cart, however it appears the only alternate route is actually further away from the cart. Consider an alternate route that gets you above the turn.

[Jazz]

Guys, I REALLY appreciate all the discussion about the routes and the moonlight and all that. I really do. But I would like to straighten some things out before there is any more talk about gameplay.

1) At first, yes I did try to make it appear moonlit. But when everyone started saying it was too dark I at least tripled the brightness from pipeline's settings (yes I used pipeline's sun settings). It might as well be a daytime map now.

2) There are additional lights in the map and it is not just environmental light. I had placed those in my map before I did any changes to the light_environment.

3) If I can't figure out why everyone is seeing my map differently than me I am not going to keep working on it until I straighten out this brightness junk.

For now, I am just going to make it into a daytime map for testing and gameplay and all that. Pics to come later.

Edit: Also, Hojo, I know you can't tell from the pics, but there is a way to get to the cap point / sniper roost. The teams spawn right in front of the point so they don't have to walk all the way across the stage to get to it.

[Jazz]

Alright folks, changed the map to daytime. It will be a daytime map until the gameplay of Thunderhead is set in stone and I can start detailing.

[Sgt Frag]

It could just be a gamma thing related to vid card.

I always adjust the level in my screenshots to make them visible for posting. And this is in outdoor areas with Valve lighting and looks fine in game.

So don't tweak your map because of how people say the screens look, use Valve lighting and it'll be just fine in game. Just tweak the screens so people can easily see them.

[engoldin]

You crazy kids and your contests. Layout is interesting. Design is going to fluxtuate so I'll refrain from commenting on layout until you've got something more final. What surprises me is how involved this content is given that I happen to know for a fact that you JUST started on it.

[brick]

I dont know why people in this community are so against a dim/dark map. Your map looks bright enough to tell which team the other player is on and if there is any threats around. I am having a similar issue on my map with complaints of it being too dark. I am increasing the lightening, but I would increase it to a point I am not happy with how it looks. I have come to find that people who have problems with dark maps run tf2 in window mode. Since you are the creator of the map you are blinded by what other people see. Have someone else that is complaining about the brightness go around the map and take screen shots of places that they feel is too dark. That should help you address problems better than just increasing every light.

[DJive]

1) At first, yes I did try to make it appear moonlit. But when everyone started saying it was too dark I at least tripled the brightness from pipeline's settings (yes I used pipeline's sun settings). It might as well be a daytime map now.

2) There are additional lights in the map and it is not just environmental light. I had placed those in my map before I did any changes to the light_environment.

3) If I can't figure out why everyone is seeing my map differently than me I am not going to keep working on it until I straighten out this brightness junk.

Because in your screenshots all we see is the env_ lighting. No ambiance lighting, or source lighting so it looks VERY dark as it would without those.

So long as you have the pipeline env_ you should be fine =)

[Jazz]

Because in your screenshots all we see is the env_ lighting. No ambiance lighting, or source lighting so it looks VERY dark as it would without those.

So long as you have the pipeline env_ you should be fine =)

Gah, ok. I see what people were saying now. I'm too lazy to post screenies and update the map and all that, but I will change it back to a dark theme when I post about the next stage.

[StoneFrog]

Way too dark. Of course, be aware if you're using the plr_pipeline settings for the light_environment that it's supposed to be that dark. If you want to emulate that map's lighting, you need a lot of light_spot entities and whatnot to light up the playing area.

Regardless, keep it up. It looks interesting. I like how the checkpoints are "out of the way" of the teams' starting points, that way you have to make a concerted effort to go after the attackers instead of just shooting at them in passing from the safety of your resupply room.

[Cerious]

He said he's keeping it day right now until he can get detailing done, and then he'll add the cool lighting (which is the best approach to night-time maps)

[SuperNerd]

It looks fine to me.

[Jazz]

Added a small water pit in the middle of stage 1 to nerf pyro action a bit.

http://www.no-moral.com/th/thunderheadwater.png

[kirbysamus]

Just tried this on our 32 man server. The size feels just right, could be a little bigger but not too big of a deal. Maybe an extra tunnel or so going under the middle of the map? The other alternate routes are a little too far out of the way to be too effective except those by the points. Also, your setup is broken. We had a fun brawl before the round even started.

[Jazz]

Just tried this on our 32 man server. The size feels just right, could be a little bigger but not too big of a deal. Maybe an extra tunnel or so going under the middle of the map? The other alternate routes are a little too far out of the way to be too effective except those by the points. Also, your setup is broken. We had a fun brawl before the round even started.

Whoops, you must have downloaded a broken version >.>

Thanks for the input, the setup is no longer broken now. I will add a fixed download later. Also, more pictures! :D. I have been experimenting with lighting on the first stage.

http://www.no-moral.com/th/th1.png

http://www.no-moral.com/th/th2.png

http://www.no-moral.com/th/th3.png

[uma plata]

Lighting is getting there

I'd crank up the brightness on your spots a little more, my 2 cents

[captainAngry]

Unfortuneatly I wasn't on the server when this got played last night but I did capture a demo. There wern't a whole lot of people on the server when this was played but the people that were on seemed to like it based on the ratings.

http://gaming.calculatedchaos.com/demo/getTheDemo.png (http://gaming.calculatedchaos.com/demo/auto-20090615-1115-plr_thunderhead_a1.zip)http://gaming.calculatedchaos.com/images/viewTheThread.png (http://gaming.calculatedchaos.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=2320&p=11641)
http://gaming.calculatedchaos.com/ratings/banner.php?map=plr_thunderhead_a1&color=blue (http://gaming.calculatedchaos.com/ratings/#plr_thunderhead_a1)

[mtv22]

I think the lighting in the pics in the opening post are phenomenal. The more you make it look like pipeline, the less people are going to want to play it. I mean you can obviously see that the layout is like pipeline. I would stay with very bright lighting to get it away from being an exact copy.

[captainAngry]

Didn't get a chance to play myself but I did record a demo last night.

http://gaming.calculatedchaos.com/demo/getTheDemo.png (http://gaming.calculatedchaos.com/demo/auto-20090616-1802-plr_thunderhead_a1.zip)http://gaming.calculatedchaos.com/images/viewTheThread.png (http://gaming.calculatedchaos.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=2320)
http://gaming.calculatedchaos.com/ratings/banner.php?map=plr_thunderhead_a1&color=blue (http://gaming.calculatedchaos.com/ratings/#plr_thunderhead_a1)

[Jazz]

Didn't get a chance to play myself but I did record a demo last night.

Alright, thanks.

WHAT'S THIS? LEAKED PHOTOS OF STAGE 2!

http://www.no-moral.com/th/thunderhead2-1.png

http://www.no-moral.com/th/thunderhead2-2.png

http://www.no-moral.com/th/thunderhead2-3.png

http://www.no-moral.com/th/thunderhead2-4.png

[Don]

Holy bloddy hell, I'm hot!

Looks amazing!

[StoneFrog]

...is this map named after Thunderhead Keep from Guild Wars? :mellow:

[Jazz]

...is this map named after Thunderhead Keep from Guild Wars? :mellow:

I have never played Guild Wars, so no :[. It's called thunderhead because I plan on making it a rainy environment.

[Psy]

Looking great. Not too sure about the final cap as all the attacks wanting to push the cart will be coming from one direction.

[Jazz]

Looking great. Not too sure about the final cap as all the attacks wanting to push the cart will be coming from one direction.

The spawn is right in front of the cap point, so it should be ok. Only testing will show.

[Jazz]

Alright boyos, you can now download Thunderhead stage 1 and 2! :D

[captainAngry]

I wasn't around for this one but I did record a demo.

http://gaming.calculatedchaos.com/demo/getTheDemo.png (http://gaming.calculatedchaos.com/demo/auto-20090622-1955-plr_thunderhead_a1.zip)http://gaming.calculatedchaos.com/images/viewTheThread.png (http://gaming.calculatedchaos.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=2320)
http://gaming.calculatedchaos.com/ratings/banner.php?map=plr_thunderhead_a1&color=blue (http://gaming.calculatedchaos.com/ratings/#plr_thunderhead_a1)

[Jazz]

I wasn't around for this one but I did record a demo.

http://gaming.calculatedchaos.com/demo/getTheDemo.png (http://gaming.calculatedchaos.com/demo/auto-20090622-1955-plr_thunderhead_a1.zip)http://gaming.calculatedchaos.com/images/viewTheThread.png (http://gaming.calculatedchaos.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=2320)
http://gaming.calculatedchaos.com/ratings/banner.php?map=plr_thunderhead_a1&color=blue (http://gaming.calculatedchaos.com/ratings/#plr_thunderhead_a1)

Wow, do you even watch the demo files? They rtv'd off my map because it is "the most horrible map you will ever play." Please don't copy/paste these things into here if you aren't going to watch the demos. They didn't even start the round before it got switched!

[Jazz]

THUNDERHEAD IS BACK FROM THE GRAVE WITH ALPHA 2!!! GO DOWNLOAD IT NOW!!!

Pics of final stage:

http://forums.tf2maps.net/geek/gars/images/7/4/0/stage3_1.png

http://forums.tf2maps.net/geek/gars/images/7/4/0/stage3_3.png

http://forums.tf2maps.net/geek/gars/images/7/4/0/stage3_2.png

Those black blotches under the ramps are pools of water, the second pool has a tunnel inside that leads to the third.

[Zanpa]

And at the end, the giant lazor explodes the barrels at the other side of the map.

[StickZer0]

looks pretty cool from the screenshots.

Excellent explosion, looks awesome, can't wait for a finished version :)

[captainAngry]

I made the mistake of telling the people on my server about you not wanting demos of us just RTVing off the map. Now as soon as it comes up for a RTV, people vote for it just so they can RTV off the map immediately.

I'm sure there is something in there about beggers not being choosers. I'll do my best to get them to play the map and I will refrain from posting demos of people Rocking the Vote.

[Jazz]

Alpha 3 is out now!

Changes:
- Fixed resupply cabinets in blue spawns on Stage 2 and 3 not working.
- Added hazard stripes and a "watch your step" sign to the pool in the first stage

[Jazz]

Makin it rain!

http://www.no-moral.com/thrain1.png

http://www.no-moral.com/thrain2.png

http://www.no-moral.com/thrain3.png

[captainAngry]

http://gaming.calculatedchaos.com/demo/getTheDemo.png (http://gaming.calculatedchaos.com/demo/auto-20090720-2244-plr_thunderhead_a3.zip) http://gaming.calculatedchaos.com/ratings/banner.php?map=plr_thunderhead_a3&color=blue (http://gaming.calculatedchaos.com/ratings/#plr_thunderhead_a3)

[Jazz]

Updated to Alpha 4!
- Added basic textures
- Added another route in stage 2
- Moved the respawn doors in stage 3 so it wouldn't feel like a deathmatch

Tell me if the download link doesn't work for any of you.
If it doesn't, just go ahead and download it here... (http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?o2znz3twznz)

EDIT: Woops, hope you don't mind a picture with my friend signing in...

[taraph75]

Hi Jazz, we tested your map on our 24 person playtest on tf2newbs.co (as requested). I compiled a list of comments that I heard:

-looks like pipeline, feels like pipeline
-stage 2 seems longer
-sniper got in red spawn
-stage 3 was the least favorite
-i personally liked stages 1-2, but some others didnt because they don't like pipeline all that much
-liked the water escape hole under the beginning point

[captainAngry]

http://gaming.calculatedchaos.com/demo/getTheDemo.png (http://gaming.calculatedchaos.com/demo/auto-20090803-1927-plr_thunderhead_a4.zip) http://gaming.calculatedchaos.com/ratings/banner.php?map=plr_thunderhead_a4&color=blue (http://gaming.calculatedchaos.com/ratings/#plr_thunderhead_a4)