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View Full Version : Model [Request] Exploding bomb cart


J4CK8
08-29-2009, 07:17 PM
Not sure if this is a lot to ask, but could someone make an animation for a payload to explode? I want the cart to explode at the end with random parts flying everywhere. Not too bothered about which cart, but an explosion killing the surroundings and not the cart itself is kind of...stupid.

Thanks in advance for any help/suggestions.

Dr. Spud
08-29-2009, 07:20 PM
oo, that's a good idea. Come to think of it, I could use this too, in pl_problematique...

Rexy
08-29-2009, 07:30 PM
oo, that's a good idea. Come to think of it, I could use this too, in pl_problematique...

The problem is each explosion has to be specifically built to match the world geometry per map. Which means inclusion of a .vmf of at least the area of explosion. Saying this means that one explosion in general just won't cut it for multiple maps, unless they built around the explosion, which could be really tedious and boring. It's much better to do it the other way around.

And the other thought is that such a big bomb is not really meant to leave behind any debris. Or that if it did, they would be so small they wouldn't be worth animating.

However, manipulating world geometry to explode in just this way is much more dramatic. Anyway, that's just imo.

J4CK8
08-29-2009, 07:34 PM
The problem is each explosion has to be specifically built to match the world geometry per map. Which means inclusion of a .vmf of at least the area of explosion. Saying this means that one explosion in general just won't cut it for multiple maps, unless they built around the explosion, which could be really tedious and boring. It's much better to do it the other way around.

And the other thought is that such a big bomb is not really meant to leave behind any debris. Or that if it did, they would be so small they wouldn't be worth animating.

However, manipulating world geometry to explode in just this way is much more dramatic. Anyway, that's just imo.

I'm lost, why would it need to be specificaly built? Unless you mean becuase of the 'gibs' of the cart would clip through buildings?

But having a big explosion where the cart is and either having the cart still standing there, or nothing there at all seems a bit odd to me. I can't imagine it looking very good.

Rexy
08-29-2009, 07:41 PM
Gibs and animations are two completely different things. Goldrush and Badwater's explosions are done by means of 3-D software that animates with a physics plugin, to simulation the explosion.

Gibs, like player gibs, are parts of a low-poly model that replaces a higher-poly model on command which then separate and move about without a scripted action.

So to make it short, gibs=no pre-scripted animation, tf2 explosions=prescripted physics animations.

I believe the reason for prescripted animated explosions is because the source engine is unable to calculate so many objects at one time...not to mention all bounces and all that etc...it's safe to say that if it takes my PC and the 3-D software 10 minutes per render to calculate collisions and 400+ moving objects, the source engine cannot handle it real-time.

J4CK8
08-29-2009, 07:46 PM
Gibs and animations are two completely different things. Goldrush and Badwater's explosions are done by means of 3-D software that animates with a physics plugin, to simulation the explosion.

Gibs, like player gibs, are parts of a low-poly model that is replaced on command which then separate and move about without a scripted action.

So to make it short, gibs=no pre-scripted animation, tf2 explosions=prescripted physics animations.

So it's not possible to make the cart explode in a similar fashion to what the explode command does to a player?

SiniStarR
08-29-2009, 07:54 PM
well what can be done is have a destroyed like cart and then when the cart reaches the final point, the cart turns into the exploded model and then you have the explosion effect like cinefx_goldrush, one of the info_particle_system particles.

edit- you place the particle above the cart, and with some shake it could look really good.

Rexy
08-29-2009, 07:54 PM
I suppose you could, but you would be limited in the # of pieces and at that, they would all have to be low-poly models, which means taking the existing model, fragmenting it and then exporting it into however many maximum # of pieces per gib object...I don't know how many that number is, but I'm assuming that if valve decided to use prescripted animations, it's probably more efficient and less costly to memory than using real-time collisions.

By all means, if someone wants to give a shot at it, and see the results, I'd be game.

Shaar
08-29-2009, 07:55 PM
unless you don't mind having giblets which clip though walls and stuff when it detonates, you can use an animation. Alternatively you could request a "cut up" version of the bomb cart, and then try and attempt to make a way to force the "Cut up" parts outwards, all being physics props. that way they would interact with the world.

mind you, I think when a bomb like that goes off, there would not be much left.

Dr. Spud
08-29-2009, 08:06 PM
What makes sense in my head is an animation that's generic and quick enough that it could work anywhere.

You could animate the explosion so that shards of metal go flying in all directions very fast, and they just fall through the ground and disapear. Then you could have the remains of the cart be a bent up, smoldering remain.

I think if the pieces fly fast enough, players won't notice/care that they dont collide with the ground.

Terr
08-29-2009, 08:14 PM
If there's no environmental destruction, then players stand around wondering why they pushed it all that way to simply break it into pieces.

If there's is environmental destruction, why not just do the necessary animations etc. there instead of duplicating work?

Dr. Spud
08-29-2009, 08:18 PM
If there's no environmental destruction, then players stand around wondering why they pushed it all that way to simply break it into pieces.

If there's is environmental destruction, why not just do the necessary animations etc. there instead of duplicating work?

Im not sure what J4CK8 has in mind, but with a map like problematique, destructable environments arent possible.

Rexy
08-29-2009, 10:23 PM
Im not sure what J4CK8 has in mind, but with a map like problematique, destructable environments arent possible.

What do you mean it's not possible? Do you mean that there isn't anything to explode? Or what?

Terr
08-30-2009, 12:47 AM
Rexy: IIRC the premise of Problematique is that the track is circular and you get points based on how many of the endless checkpoints you pass through in a fixed amount of time.

So if it were to blow up at the time limit, it could be anywhere.

J4CK8
08-30-2009, 04:44 AM
Im not sure what J4CK8 has in mind, but with a map like problematique, destructable environments arent possible.

Ok, what I wanted to happen was to have a cart that explodes when the timer runs out, as in BLU lose, and it explodse on the track wherever it is.

If BLU win, the cart will hopefully go inside a building and blow it up. No doubt this will cause problems too, but I have a small idea for how to do that.

UFOslava
03-22-2013, 10:45 AM
Epic thread revive, ho!

Exploded cart is still relevant. Very useful for blue losing vs timer, or at tug-o-war...
Just a static prop of a wrecked wooden cart, and a few pieces like the tail and dispenser would be useful for many mappers.

Think of it like this: you cant expect of a cart that expldes mid way to stay in one piece, nor disappear with no trace...

Fish 2.0
04-05-2013, 07:50 PM
Remember, a number of the pieces would fly into the sky - have majority of the pieces just clip through the walls and floor but have a few fall down within a few metre radius a few seconds after the explosion. That would sell the effect.

PoignardAzur
04-14-2013, 09:19 AM
Yeah. I think the best solution would be an hybrid thing :
- A pre-rendered animation of the wooden cart exploding (would only work on a flat floor, though)
- Some gibs of the payload generated dynamically.
- Multiple pre-rendered explosions with lots of little pieces, based on the different ceilings heights and corridor widths of the map (but again, you have not to make too varied paths).

Limeaide
04-16-2013, 03:05 AM
Yeah. I think the best solution would be an hybrid thing :
- A pre-rendered animation of the wooden cart exploding (would only work on a flat floor, though)
- Some gibs of the payload generated dynamically.
- Multiple pre-rendered explosions with lots of little pieces, based on the different ceilings heights and corridor widths of the map (but again, you have not to make too varied paths).

If they just flew out in random directions to quickly for you to be able to notice that they're clipping through walls that would be fine enough

Fish 2.0
04-18-2013, 01:50 PM
If they just flew out in random directions to quickly for you to be able to notice that they're clipping through walls that would be fine enough

the explosion particle system would mask it up enough