Rocktop

KotH Rocktop rc2

gr8stalin

L1: Registered
Feb 27, 2011
9
6
Guess what we pugged again? We got a slightly different group than the last few rocktop pugs, and we had a few insights/complaints/suggestions.

One suggestion was to lower the spire a little so jumpers are able to jump onto the point with airtime to spare, not just enough so that they can hop onto the point and be hit by all the explosive damage in the world. Also, everyone was looking to perform some really cool airshots as well, and the height spoils that a little. This brings us back to the issue of the house: it was generally agreed that it would be best to raise the skybox and either remove the roof of the house or remove the house altogether and bring back the sheet metal.

Another suggestion for the healthpacks at the sides of the spire was to have a long tunnel with a medium healthkit with small ammo pack in the middle, risk being that if any enemy is blocking your way, you're dead, reward being that it's got health and ammo resupply and a quick way to get to the other side of the spire.

Then we found this rock with a seemingly out of place little cubby behind it. We figured this would be a place for engineers to sit or a place for a spy or pyro to hide (in terms of pub play), but it just seemed out of place. One player suggested that you cut the rock in half and make it a place where players can still hide/engineers hide sentries, but where other players can just run around or spam through.

General complaints: Add more textures & detail, house is VERY easy to defend due to the confined space and height. We still love rocktop, hope you keep on truckin!
 

ok comp

L2: Junior Member
Mar 16, 2011
51
15
First of all, I want to thank Backscratch for alerting me to that youtube review... very awesome to see something like that, and it serves as great motivation to finish the project!

Stalin, great feedback as always! I was really stumped in terms of layout changes and hadn't gotten a lot of feedback, but you've pointed out a few things I'd like to tweak.

Connecting the tunnels under the spire was a thought I had a while ago, and maybe it's time to give it a shot. I could definitely stick some health and ammo in there and make it a great risk/reward opportunity.

The "seemingly out of place cubby" is exactly that... I intended on clipping it off and using the area for detailing, but I figured a few extra nooks and crannies could help Spies or other classes. However, cutting that rock in half is something I never considered, and I really, really like the idea since I always felt that corner was kind of cluttered anyway. Thanks!

I know what you mean about the height of the spire. I have a lot of options at hand to address that, so I do expect some tweaking.
 

ok comp

L2: Junior Member
Mar 16, 2011
51
15
a4 has been released!

Changelog:

-Raised and leveled terrain immediately in between base and mid
-Redesigned base configuration to match raised terrain
-Extended battlements
-Connected tunnel entrances underneath mid
-Connected side trail underneath rock arch
-Opened up arch-side alcoves when entering mid-area
-Redesigned upper spawn exit so that main door does not collide with players in upper doorway
 

SSX

aa
Feb 2, 2014
392
411
Dat Map Revival.

•_•)
( •_•)>⌐■-■
(⌐■_■)
 

ok comp

L2: Junior Member
Mar 16, 2011
51
15
Thank you to everyone who helped playtest the map in the recent US gameday. It seems there was a consensus that the overall feel is "narrow" which I agree with. I feel a little guilty about this as a frequent Spy user because I know how tricky that makes things for him. I got feedback about the map being Pyro friendly which is also very true considering the tight, narrow routes and ambush opportunities. Opening things up a bit and widening routes should help both problems.

I'm incorporating some Sniper friendly areas based on feedback as well, along with widening doorways where possible. I'd always been concerned about engineers since there isn't an obvious spot for them to play in (like you'd see in Viaduct) but most I saw were playing as gunslingers so perhaps that's why.

Definitely looking forward to completing the next playable version for testing. Thanks again to all who were there!
 

ok comp

L2: Junior Member
Mar 16, 2011
51
15
a5 is released!

I'm having issues with uploading new screenshots currently so I'll try again later. In the meantime, here is a before/after album showcasing the biggest changes between this release and the previous release:

http://imgur.com/a/ZDUtV

I'm really excited and feel pretty strongly that the changes push the layout in the right direction. A little playtesting will confirm whether that's the case though!

Detailing is shelved for now so ignore what has been done and definitely ignore what has not (ie the HL1-esque mountain on the bridge side!)


Changelog:
-Overall widening of the map (clutter removed, paths widened)
-Many doorways widened
-Raised battlements to match height of capture point (snipers now relevant!)
-Redesigned paths from spawn to mid to make it more difficult for an attacking team to push all the way to opponent's spawn
-"Bridge side" changed to feature a mine themed area
 

ok comp

L2: Junior Member
Mar 16, 2011
51
15
b1 is released! (new screenshots and changelog in first post)

DOWNLOAD HERE

I'm finally pushing into beta with a round of heavy detailing, this time focused around the middle area of the map. There were a few changes that could impact gameplay that I'd like to keep my eye on but nothing major.

It's open season on everything at this point. Save for the areas I haven't begun work on (primarily interiors between spawn and mid and spawn itself), I'm really interested in feedback on all aspects of the map.
 
Last edited:
Apr 14, 2013
663
343
I remember playing this map, but it was very long ago so I don't think I can help gameplay-wise.

Detail stuff:
In 1st pic (blu side), there's a balcony with a door into the blue building, that makes no sense. No one will build a inaccessible balcony, please make some stairs or ladder so it will look useable.

The point's building is broken and in very bad condition, however, somehow the building on top of it (I don't know how to call it, but you get what I mean) is almost not damaged at all. I think it will look better slightly tilted, or damaged like the point's building.
 

ok comp

L2: Junior Member
Mar 16, 2011
51
15
I remember playing this map, but it was very long ago so I don't think I can help gameplay-wise.

Detail stuff:
In 1st pic (blu side), there's a balcony with a door into the blue building, that makes no sense. No one will build a inaccessible balcony, please make some stairs or ladder so it will look useable.

The point's building is broken and in very bad condition, however, somehow the building on top of it (I don't know how to call it, but you get what I mean) is almost not damaged at all. I think it will look better slightly tilted, or damaged like the point's building.

Thanks for the feedback!

I'm pretty confident there is more I can do with that balcony. It was originally intended to be a pretty straightforward balcony (door, balcony, step out, have a smoke...) however I really do like your suggestion; I agree, a ladder going down and maybe some railings could really give it a more interesting look.

Concerning the top structure above the point, I was thinking I might get away with just using a roughed up wood texture instead of detail brushwork since the player never gets too close to it. It's not large though so I may just brush it out to make it appear as rough as the main structure... the lean is a cool idea if I can find a way to pull it off that I like.
 

ok comp

L2: Junior Member
Mar 16, 2011
51
15
I wanted to follow up on the play test last Saturday and reply back to some select feedback that I found very useful.

::Egan:: made an annotation at -232 -2875 95 while standing at -232 -3251 95 5 days ago
could use more of a landmark on the side of the map that enters the cave


I interpreted that to mean the area was a bit bland on detail and I agree. Compare this before shot to the after shot... I focused on density of detail around the cave entrance, while adding a mine-tower above the mine to give it more of a focal point. Hopefully we're getting warmer here?

Avatar Auwi left feedback: 5 days ago
a little tough to reclaim mid?


This was good to hear. Related to this: there was also a convo over voice chat at the end of the session that discussed how the point goes from peaceful to a full on cluster rather often. Concerning the ability to reclaim a point on high ground, this was always a concern of mine from day one, but it would appear from this play test and others previous that the point typically changed hands at least once per round, if not more.

However I'm still keen on possibly reducing the time it takes to cap the point for a number of reasons: it's relatively easy to defend, and when a lot of people are on the point it gets incredibly spammy. I'm wondering if a reduction in the time it takes to cap will help get people on and off of the point faster. To push it to the other extreme though, if the cap times are moved too low it could be a disincentive for some players to bother with the point ("I'll do my own thing and let the scouts/soldiers cap it", etc). KOTH doesn't have a lot of depth to begin with and is already a stone's throw from deathmatch. So it's all about finding that sweet spot. But I'm interested to see if anyone else has some insight on this stuff.

Trotim left feedback: 5 days ago
better be a mobile class or you can't get to mid

Avatar Dain [h+] left feedback: 5 days ago
too hard to get to mid if you arent a demo scout or soldier


I'll probably get these comments every play test and it will forever be my biggest struggle with this map. From the get-go, this map was focused on vertical gameplay, which by default will favor these classes... for me it's a matter of where to draw the line. Too watered down and you lose uniqueness, the other extreme is that it really truly is unfair and not enjoyable to play as any other class. I'm not so sure I'm seeing the latter so much, though again, we're talking about finding a sweet spot and my execution may still be slightly off.

At this point I'm likely beyond any grand layout revisions though. Even a small map like this is a big undertaking and time investment (for me). I'm interested in moving onto other projects so I may have to wrap it up and take my lessons from it. However I'm hoping some minor tweaks like adjusting cap times could improve the situation.

Once again, thanks for the great feedback from everyone. Looking forward to the next!
 

ok comp

L2: Junior Member
Mar 16, 2011
51
15
b2 is released! - download here

This release sees the completion of some level of detailing for all areas of the map, a full light compile and continued optimization (fade distances, lightmaps). The only gameplay change from the previous release is the reduced cap time; previously it was around 30 seconds for a single person, now reduced to around 15-16 seconds. We'll see through playtesting if this increases movement on and off the point and cuts back on the spammy clusters that happen from time to time.

Next, in addition to addressing anything that playtesting reveals, I'll be working on further optimization, soundscapes, lighting tweaks and revisiting some detail areas outside of player reach (skybox, etc)
 

ok comp

L2: Junior Member
Mar 16, 2011
51
15
RC1 released! - download here

THANK YOU to everyone who contributed to the playtests, left feedback and helped shape the map to be what it is today! Looking back I realize it's not perfect, but I learned a lot, it was fun to make and I hope more than anything it's fun to play.

Changes for this version:

-Soundscape completed
-More optimization
-Additional detailing in non-player areas and skybox
-Misc detailing tweaks

That, and promoting it to release candidate. I could tweak forever but I'm ready to take on some new projects. I'll revisit when needed based on any feedback.
 

Zed

Certified Most Crunk™
aa
Aug 7, 2014
1,241
1,025
Great job. It's nice to see an older map finally get finished.

As a side note, I'm getting some pretty massive, and I mean MASSIVE FPS drops on map load. The only other map I've seen with this problem is Nightfall. Might want to look into that.
 

ok comp

L2: Junior Member
Mar 16, 2011
51
15
Great job. It's nice to see an older map finally get finished.

As a side note, I'm getting some pretty massive, and I mean MASSIVE FPS drops on map load. The only other map I've seen with this problem is Nightfall. Might want to look into that.

Thank you for the heads up. Correct me if I have any of this wrong: I'm interpreting this to mean as soon as the map loads and you're in game you are experiencing an FPS drop that eventually goes away? If so:

-Does this happen every time you load the map?
-How long is the drop (does it go away after a period of time or if you leave a particular location?)

My question to anyone else reading this: are you experiencing anything similar? Is anyone else familiar with a problem like this?

At a glance I'm stumped, but I'll take some time to look into this tonight.
 

Zed

Certified Most Crunk™
aa
Aug 7, 2014
1,241
1,025
Only seems like it happened the first couple of times I loaded the map. Lasted about 20 seconds. Restarted the game to check, no giant frame jumps.

It's probably fine.