Old 08-14-2012, 02:53 PM   #1
yyler
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Default MVM Gameplay/Server info


This is all from Fletcher Dunn on the HLDS mailing list, because I know not everyone is subscribed.

TLDR: MVM is mission based, not map based, and players can "create their own" and "it's easier than making a new map". Servers use more CPU than a 24 man game and need to be launched with a separate command and with 32 maxplayers. Putting MVM maps into a PVP mapcycle will totally mess your server up, don't do it.

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* Players can join your server through any means they can join PvP games: the server browser, ad hoc joins, or the new matchmaking system (quickplay beta).
* To accept matchmaking traffic, you must select which sort of traffic you want. (Regular PvP traffic or MvM traffic.) Set “tf_mm_servermode 2” to be placed in the MvM pool.
* For MvM matchmaking, if 6 players are sent to your server to start a new game, it will switch to whatever map the players selected.
* You will need a TF gameserver account to accept matchmaking traffic.
* You can switch the server in and out of any matchmaking mode pool or back to any regular game mode at any time.
* The CPU usage for a 6 player MvM game is about the same as for a regular TF server. (Yep, this mode requires significantly more CPU cycles per player than the PvP mode, that’s an unfortunate fact.)
Given the surge of players that comes with any major release, and the player / server ratio of this game mode, the demand for MvM servers will probably be high. We expect that a large number of players will want to try out the new mode, so we will be converting most of our servers to host MvM, and then adjust the allocation based on what players are playing.
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We will not have Steam group functionality tomorrow. [This refers to allowing only people in a group to join a L4D2 server.]

You actually have to set maxplayers to 32 to host MvM (to make room for all the bots). That's why the mode is expensive CPU-wise, to not only simulate all those players but run their AI logic as well. We'll have more details on the recommended settings tomorrow.

Regarding exactly what happens if a 24-player server switches to MvM: I actually don't think we have worked that out yet.

I'm pretty sure on day one there will be lots of people trying out all sorts of things. Our approach to experimentation in MvM will be the same as in PvP: we encourage it, provided that players are opting in to any major deviations from the vanilla experience. Our servers will all be configured vanilla, and the matchmaking will enforce the 6 player limit, and the server browser will be the primary means for players to find those sorts of customizations. What will the most interesting customizations be? What will the standard tags be used that we request server operators to set in order to help players find the modifications they want or avoid the ones they don't like? We can't know that yet. That's something we expect you guys and your players to figure out.

I will hazard a guess that raising the player count well above 6 would be detrimental the experience. There ratio of humans to bots would be off and the human defending team would not have enough challenge. (As an extreme example: imagine a 32-player server where everybody is defending an there are no bots.) Exactly how far it can be raised above 6 without totally breaking the game is speculation of course. I think a smart server operator will start out with the server configured relatively vanilla, and then watch how the game unfolds and listen to their players, and try to make smart decisions about which areas to experiment, rather than assuming the same sorts of adjustments your community prefers in PvP will automatically apply to this mode. A fun co-op mode with more than six players is likely to require entirely new missions. (The mission decides the pattern of enemy robots that come at you.) We have purposefully made it easy for players to create their own missions. (It's a lot easier than creating a whole new map!) But if you play with more than six players, with the missions we've made, I think the balance will be way off.
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OK, a little investigating reveals that this statement I made:

* You can switch the server in and out of any matchmaking mode pool or back to any regular game mode at any time.

Is not really accurate! Sorry! If the server is EMPTY or has fewer than 6 players, yes, there are no problems with switching --- that is true. However, in general, switching from PvP to MvM is going to cause several problems. (I believe that what would actually happen is that the 7th, 8th, etc. players who connect on a map change will be forced into spectator. At any rate, we don't officially support that, so if you do it, you're on your own.) So, you should expect to segregate your servers into MvM and PvP. Don't just put the MvM maps into the mapcycle file, that won't work. (Actually, the mapcycle file is slightly different for MvM because you really are cycling through missions, not the maps. Likewise, players can vote to change the "mission" even if it's on the current map. We'll have more details on all this tomorrow.)
Emphasis mine.

How we gonna test this shit? Dag, yo.
 
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Old 08-14-2012, 02:56 PM   #2
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Default MVM Gameplay/Server info


12:54 PM - ForbiddenDonut: I don't really understand the mission based, not map based.
12:55 PM - Randdalf: it says there that the missions are like, what is in each wave of enemies
12:55 PM - Randdalf: you play the missions on MvM geared maps
12:55 PM - ForbiddenDonut: ah okay
12:55 PM - yyler ☂: i wonder if "creating a mission" means you can share them like maps
12:55 PM - yyler ☂: workshop functionality?
12:55 PM - ForbiddenDonut: can a mapmaker set these or is it player choice
12:55 PM - Randdalf: basically, the map is just some kind of area, and then you can make missions to play on it seperately
12:55 PM - Randdalf: yeah
12:55 PM - Matt: yyler: I wouldn't be surprised
12:56 PM - Randdalf: I'd hope so, and I'd hope for map workshop too
12:56 PM - Randdalf: tbh though, there's not a lot of variety in putting missions on the workshop if it's literally just configuring what's in each wave
12:56 PM - ForbiddenDonut: because it's kind of pointless for me to map for a mode without being able to dictate how the waves operate lol
 
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Old 08-14-2012, 03:15 PM   #3
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you probably shouldn't have included that last line from forbiddendonut now people are gonna think he's a big baby

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Old 08-14-2012, 08:19 PM   #4
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Even tho it's mission based, aren't we able to create maps for it anyways?

Custom missions on custom maps will definitely have an edge over missions on valve maps.

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Old 08-14-2012, 09:25 PM   #5
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So, do we have spare servers to meet the demand? It's usually fine to just have one full 24 player server, but this is going to require four servers just to reach our usual player count.
 
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Old 08-14-2012, 09:29 PM   #6
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Testing MvM and how and on what server is probably a question better left to be answered in a week or two.
 
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Old 08-14-2012, 10:41 PM   #7
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Sorry, but everyone here is going to want to play it right at launch time. And they are probably going to want to play on their favorite server (our server).
 
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Old 08-15-2012, 12:01 AM   #8
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noses


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Old 08-15-2012, 09:23 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henke37 View Post
Sorry, but everyone here is going to want to play it right at launch time. And they are probably going to want to play on their favorite server (our server).
Which won't be possible since we're a 24 man server.
 
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