Alternator

CP alternator b1

Bakscratch

Finisher of Maps
aa
Oct 29, 2010
714
1,492
##############################
A12a
Sorry for no public updates in a while, been having some small changes but now there is a big change
-Redone C competely made it balanced it for both team so no longer Red high advantage.
-A has been changed a little, the high advantage has gone from the room.
-A has now got a little building near the blu side.
-Shortened route from C to A
-Changed some of the Health packs around
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Download: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/12945353/maps/CP_WIP/cp_alternator_a12a.bsp.bz2

a12.jpg
 

Turbo Lover

Fight me under Glasgow Central Station
aa
Feb 15, 2011
333
344
Now we gon' break this thing down in just a few seconds.

A

3SX4F.jpg


These spawn exits are bad for both RED and BLU. For red, they force the defenders to divide their attention between both fronts, turn one way to try and deal with the Soldier/Medic combo spamming at you, a Sniper and Scout blindside you, it forces and encourages RED to stay inside the building of A and that small area on the back of A. And this makes it difficult for BLU as well. If all of the RED team, Sentries, Heavies, Demomen, you name it, are cooped up in little building, it's going to take a monumental effort to shift them out of it.

Furthermore, in Gravelpit, BLU's spawn tunnel exits never face the same place, or deposit attackers in the same place, which gives them more leeway and options for capturing the point. Not the case in your map, yours face the same way and lead to the same place, essentially the same thing as only having one exit, which would understandably restrict BLU's choices in trying to attack A. Right now, to capture A in your map, the best bet is to capture B and loop around via C to cut off reinforcements and try and wrestle RED out of A from behind, which I'm sure you can agree is not good.

gpita.png

gpitb.png

alta.png


What I would propose to help alleviate A's problems is twofold. Firstly, move one of your spawn tunnel exits to the low ground. This means BLU have a more out of the way spawn exit that helps them flank and RED don't have to worry as much about which door they need to watch.

altexit.png


Secondly, let people stand on the roof of A and make a hole in the roof, so that if RED do decide to do as they did in today's test, and pile multiple Sentries inside A, BLU have a good angle to counter them. It'd probably be best to nobuild the roof though.

althole.png


B

3T0eX.jpg


I think Fr0z3n put it best, and I will attempt to paraphrase him, "I'm looking at all the places people can shoot me from, and there is a lot of them." As a defender on RED, there's at least half a dozen places damage can come from, most of it from far away or from a tiny window or from a tiny window that's far away far away. Simplify. One large opening in a wall is better than a lot of small ones. It'll streamline navigation as there are less doorways to traverse through and give RED a few less windows to watch.

altb1.png

altb2.png

altb3.png

altb4.png

altb5.png


Now even if you do make it so that RED don't need to worry about being attacked from all angles, B would still be pretty difficult to defend, I imagine, on account of not really having a good place for Engineers to nest up, I suggest expanding over to the left side, (RED's perspective) and giving them some kind of structure there that they can defend from rather than sitting out in the open.

altwall.png


C

3T2E0.jpg


Goddamn I have been typing this and making pictures and procrastinating on it for literally a few hours now, let's make this quick.

Fr0z3n is right once again, and C has the issue that attackers don't have many any good way to see the point which forces them to go in blind. In addition to this, the routes BLU have into C put them at a disadvantage. All of the routes BLU can take into C exit underneath some higher ground for red or directly into a massive Sniper sightline. I recommend two changes.

The first being simply move the exits to the routes so that they aren't left at such a heavy disadvantage.

altc1.png

altc2.png

altc3.png


And rejiggering RED's spawn so that Sniper can't just stand outside of their spawn door, snipe a guy, and run to a resupply locker two feet away when they get spammed. The below pictures would involve removing the upper level to the spawn entirely.

alts1.png

alts2.png

alts3.png


That took a long time, I hope you found at least some parts of it helpful and didn't think it was just me pulling ideas out of my arse. Talk to me on Steam if you want me to clarify something, I appreciate the quality of my explanations may have diminished as the post went on, just talk to me once I've had something to drink.
 
Mar 23, 2010
1,872
1,696
i agree with at least the first few things turbo said. look at gpit and other valve maps to see how chokes work or are supposed to work. there is very little reason for red to hold at the gates or anywhere but the point. I would increase chokiness of chokes and paths between areas and i would try to make the point areas flow better (though i dont know exactly what to change).
 

Pocket

Half a Lambert is better than one.
aa
Nov 14, 2009
4,694
2,579
The Rock Wall That Wished It Was a Building

Coming soon to a children's library near you.
 

Bakscratch

Finisher of Maps
aa
Oct 29, 2010
714
1,492
#############################
A16
Lots of major changes effecting all of the map
-A
-Spawn have been changed to decrese spawn camping
-the roof is now walkable and now has an opening on top
-Death pit now added to the side of A
-full health now under A
-Ramp on A removed
-Middle map changes
-simplified the middle area
-removed the stairs on the ground to gain acces to the upper to give view to B
-added windows to aloue players to see onto B
-added a lower door near B
-made the middle upper area bigger
-removed the door from blu spawn to B
-moved the well door closer to B (added a route to help for the removed door)
-Removed the windows in house near B
-C
-moved the A exit closer to C
-added a walk way from mid to C
-moved the exit from B slightly over
-added a death pit
-added a building to give blu some flank
-changed red spawn to stop camping
(there are also several other small changes)
#######################

Download: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/12945353/maps/CP_WIP/cp_alternator_a16.bsp.bz2

2013-08-05_00001.jpg
 
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Bakscratch

Finisher of Maps
aa
Oct 29, 2010
714
1,492
####################
A18b
-B
-Removed building near blu spawn
-Replaced with a smaller raised ground
-Reduced some big sightlines
-Added windows to route to C
-Added a 2nd route to C from B
-2nd building has been reworked
-C
-Changed building behind point to let attacker see the point
-Added windows
-Reduced sightlines
-Other
-Changed the route from A-B
#####################

Download: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/12945353/maps/CP_WIP/cp_alternator_a18b.bsp.bz2

2013-08-14_00001.jpg
 

TheClaudioAmericano

L1: Registered
Mar 27, 2013
46
16
This map has become much better then what it started off.
You have succeeded in making each version better then the last, congratulations on that.
I have made these 2 ideas that you can try and work on in the future:


1st -
I´m not sure if I am the only one but, everytime I spawn on the blu team and exit the spawndoor, I always go to the A path. I almost forget there even is a B path to begin with, the A one really stands out.
I suggest maybe moving the spawndoor a bit to the right so that the B path stands out a bit more, or maybe making both A and B one entire path.

G0tCudv.png



2nd -
In the last gameday I and a few others mentioned how the sightline from A to C was pretty OP for Snipers, and I still keep the thought.
You did change that and I am happy about it, but I´m not sure if the change of the exit was needed.
This was sorta my primary idea to fix the sightline a bit.

sK7sqR3.png


Oh and sorry about the quality, I used SFM for this because I was lazy to open TF2, heh.
 
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Bakscratch

Finisher of Maps
aa
Oct 29, 2010
714
1,492
TCA;290247} 2nd - In the last gameday I and a few others mentioned how the sightline from A to C was pretty OP for Snipers said:
http://i.imgur.com/sK7sqR3.png[/IMG]

Oh and sorry about the quality, I used SFM for this because I was lazy to open TF2, heh.

I dont get this?
 

colacan

L5: Dapper Member
Apr 14, 2012
235
85
It was fun sniping, but when I top score as a sniper, you know there is something wrong.
 

RaVaGe

aa
Jun 23, 2010
733
1,210
The map is overscaled, there's too much paths, there's no propper sentry nest, there's no chokepoints.

Overall the ideas are good, but it's not enough.
 

Bakscratch

Finisher of Maps
aa
Oct 29, 2010
714
1,492
#####################
A19a
-B
-Added higher ground for attacker to B
-Opened out the small route for B-C
-Added cover near B
-C
-Added higher ground for Red
-Added high ground on the side
-Other
-Changed respawn times for red and blu
-Made the middle area a fraction smaller
-Added more clipping

P.S I hope this will be the last version the hopfully go into beta.
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Download: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/12945353/maps/CP_WIP/cp_alternator_a19a.bsp.bz2

a19a.jpg
 

TheClaudioAmericano

L1: Registered
Mar 27, 2013
46
16
I really like this map and I can´t wait for it to start growing visually in beta form.
I have just this one suggestion.

The sentry placement on the new top part of the red´s spawn was talked a lot, there wasn´t really a way to get up there, it was hard to out range it if the engy had a wrangler.
You added a way to get up which is great, but I thought that maybe you can turn the stairs around so that it is more on favor to the blu team (for an uber, example):
M2xy1le.png


My other suggestion before I noticed you added the stairs was just make it so that Engineers can´t build there:
ciEWazn.png


Whatever you choose, once again I can´t wait to see this map grow in beta.
 

Bakscratch

Finisher of Maps
aa
Oct 29, 2010
714
1,492
BAM! Another version with some big changes
###############
A21
-C
-Moved the point into the middle of the bridge
-Increased the head height under the bridge
-A
-Moved the point a area around up towards C
-This created an open area from blu spawn
-This also means the journey from C to A is a lot shorter and Is more like B to C now
###############

Download: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/12945353/maps/CP_WIP/cp_alternator_a21.bsp.bz2

a21.jpg
 

RaVaGe

aa
Jun 23, 2010
733
1,210
Your map still lacks of good sentry nests, it's not really fun to defend on it.

Here's some ideas.

2013-08-30_00001.jpg


Sentry nest here.

2013-08-30_00002.jpg


I find this house way too much out of the gameplay zone.

2013-08-30_00003.jpg


Still overscaled

2013-08-30_00004.jpg


This house behind the point isn't really fun, you should create another one in parrallel of the control point building.

2013-08-30_00006.jpg


This door is too close to the red usual path/middle path.

2013-08-30_00007.jpg


Enlarge this.

2013-08-30_00008.jpg


Be more imaginative please, this point is just annoying.
 

Ida

deer
aa
Jan 6, 2008
2,289
1,372
Ok, I finally figured out what's bothering me about this map. I think I would like it a hell of a lot better if C was... well, different. The thing about that point is that it's both a pain in the ass to defend, and a pain in the ass to attack.

For RED, there doesn't feel like there's any decent spot to defend from. As soon as you exit spawn you've pretty much passed the point, which puts you in an awkward position between BLU and the point. There's nowhere you can put down a sentry or station a heavy, where it'll do any good. I know about the building, but fat chance defending that when it can be attacked from literally everywhere. So the only logical things to do from there are 1) proceed to A and B because you're bored, or 2) spam snipers and other medium/fast classes to roam around, effectively turning C into a deathmatch. It's kind of hard to get my point across here, but basically what I'm saying is that defending such a big open square with no sentry spots is just boring and I think that leads to bad gameplay.

For BLU, the issue is a lack of any attacking advantage. It's not map-breaking issue because RED doesn't have a big defending advantage either, but it does mean that it's really annoying to push. The map is lacking any sort of area where BLU can be safe and build up a push. The only area that kind of qualifies for that is the A-C tunnel, but the problem with that is that it's so close to C that there's always gonna be fighting in that tunnel.

My solutions to this would be to make C more tight and more interesting, a bit more climactic even. I'm not saying to make a ton of super hard defense positions, but give RED some reason to stay there, if you get my meaning. To balance this for BLU I think you should distance C somewhat from A and B and give them some sort of safe area.
 
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Bakscratch

Finisher of Maps
aa
Oct 29, 2010
714
1,492
A HEADS UP

Just a quick note here, I will be starting University on the 9th of September so I will be busy with that.
It does not mean I am stopping development on Alternator. I am still open to feedback and changes.
I have some Ideas on what I may do in the future.
-Make C inside with more cover and not as open. (indoors like Upward last)
-Opening A up or Making the 2 building into one.
-Make B more open and also maybe move it closer to blu

If you have some more idea please let me know, so when I have time or are on a holiday break I can work on it and get it to a release state

Thanks