RubbishyUser
L7: Fancy Member
- Feb 17, 2013
- 414
- 488
Hey, I'll have you know I liked Thundermountain Stage 3! In fact, I'd say that despite appearances, the two stages (stage 3 thundermountain and stage 2 cactuscanyon), are actually very different. It's because Thundermountain's last point is so incredibly unassailable before any points are capped that players are forced to head to the points themselves, with A giving a balcony and some respite that looks over C, and B actually providing a direct route without going up the winding centre area.
But first, a brief aside. Ravage, I'm sorry but that whole post was extremely condescending. In fact, I think if people say "I don't like any of _____" then they really shouldn't be playing it any more - it just simply isn't for them, and any criticism is invalid. That should be a general rule for life. Since you failed to suggest that you liked any portion of the map, I think it's safe to say that your post is nothing more than damning condemnation and would make any self-respecting Valve employee collapse into the soft, calming embrace of Gabe himself.
That's not to say you didn't bring up anything of merit: the first half of the post is exemplary explanation of the pacing of any "serious" payload map. It's what I failed to understand when I built pl_octagon - the points fell within the map chokes, resulting in horrible stop-start gameplay. The diagram clearly explains it, as well. Good job.
And yet, that isn't even what Valve has failed to do in stage 1 of Cactuscanyon. Despite the literally uphill struggle of making a map on a gradient that didn't reduce the defense to an insurmountable fortress, they managed to divide up the map and create the flow you demanded - and maybe the team you played on just failed to capitalize on it. Not only that, they do it without awkward one-way doors or dropdowns or the other gimmicks used in more complex maps.
You're right that the cart is never on the high ground. That's because the high ground is a series of interlocking balconies and paths accessible only by the blue team that allow them to get the drop on the height advantage naturally enjoyed by the red team. On every part of stage 1, for every nasty hill that Blu is forced to assault, there is a balcony looking over it that is easily accessible from only their side.
Except in one location - shortly after the first point. It's a tiny area, but the whole of Blu is forced through the first point itself, before the map immediately widens with the routes up into the building. This is the "map choke" you spoke of - and sure enough, just in front is the first point with the ammo and health where engineers invariably set up. Which is an area where Blue has balconies and other flanks, negating the huge height advantage Red has.
Actually, it wasn't until you made this post that I realized exactly how well designed Cactus Canyon was, at least the first stage. I was starting to also like the original stage 2 before it was cut. All it requires are some fair and intelligent teams and a little give in what you want.
I'm going to disregard the entire second half of your post because it's very clear that you want to make a different map to them. Just remember that just because you don't like it, there are others who do and will not appreciate the fire you're spitting.
But first, a brief aside. Ravage, I'm sorry but that whole post was extremely condescending. In fact, I think if people say "I don't like any of _____" then they really shouldn't be playing it any more - it just simply isn't for them, and any criticism is invalid. That should be a general rule for life. Since you failed to suggest that you liked any portion of the map, I think it's safe to say that your post is nothing more than damning condemnation and would make any self-respecting Valve employee collapse into the soft, calming embrace of Gabe himself.
That's not to say you didn't bring up anything of merit: the first half of the post is exemplary explanation of the pacing of any "serious" payload map. It's what I failed to understand when I built pl_octagon - the points fell within the map chokes, resulting in horrible stop-start gameplay. The diagram clearly explains it, as well. Good job.
And yet, that isn't even what Valve has failed to do in stage 1 of Cactuscanyon. Despite the literally uphill struggle of making a map on a gradient that didn't reduce the defense to an insurmountable fortress, they managed to divide up the map and create the flow you demanded - and maybe the team you played on just failed to capitalize on it. Not only that, they do it without awkward one-way doors or dropdowns or the other gimmicks used in more complex maps.
You're right that the cart is never on the high ground. That's because the high ground is a series of interlocking balconies and paths accessible only by the blue team that allow them to get the drop on the height advantage naturally enjoyed by the red team. On every part of stage 1, for every nasty hill that Blu is forced to assault, there is a balcony looking over it that is easily accessible from only their side.
Except in one location - shortly after the first point. It's a tiny area, but the whole of Blu is forced through the first point itself, before the map immediately widens with the routes up into the building. This is the "map choke" you spoke of - and sure enough, just in front is the first point with the ammo and health where engineers invariably set up. Which is an area where Blue has balconies and other flanks, negating the huge height advantage Red has.
Actually, it wasn't until you made this post that I realized exactly how well designed Cactus Canyon was, at least the first stage. I was starting to also like the original stage 2 before it was cut. All it requires are some fair and intelligent teams and a little give in what you want.
I'm going to disregard the entire second half of your post because it's very clear that you want to make a different map to them. Just remember that just because you don't like it, there are others who do and will not appreciate the fire you're spitting.
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