'Feelers Poll' - Random Crits or No Random Crits

What do you think the testing server default should be in terms of random crits?

  • I want the server default to have random crits ON

    Votes: 27 39.1%
  • I want the server default to have random crits OFF

    Votes: 27 39.1%
  • I am impartial, and don't frankly care whether they are off or on.

    Votes: 15 21.7%

  • Total voters
    69
  • Poll closed .

wareya

L420: High Member
Jun 17, 2012
493
191
Bump:

Added ConVar tf_weapon_criticals_melee to control whether melee weapons have random crits. Works separately from tf_weapon_criticals.

Can we do this? Can we get a new feelers poll?
 

wareya

L420: High Member
Jun 17, 2012
493
191
I think melee-only crits would be extremely viable as a default setting, because it retains crits where they're most relevant to the default balance of the game, and gets rid of them where they're more likely to cause statistical anamolies.
 

TyeZenneth

L6: Sharp Member
May 31, 2014
340
293
This would still fuck up the weapon balance, though.
 

TyeZenneth

L6: Sharp Member
May 31, 2014
340
293
Some weapons are balanced by not having random crits.
Taking away random crits for even just the projectile weapons messes with that balance.
 

ibex

aa
Sep 1, 2013
308
528
Backscatter, guillotine, cow mangler, phlog, manmelter, frontier justice, short circuit, cleaner's carbine, enforcer, diamondback.

These are all the non-melee weapons "balanced" by the "no random criticals" line. Most of them generate their own criticals. (Don't know why they added it to the short-circuit, but I think the reason they put it on the enforcer was so that someone can't accidentally get sniped from across the map for 144.)
I don't think there are any weapons besides maybe the minigun that rely on random to be balanced.

That new convar almost sounds like they've been listening to people's arguments about criticals
 

wareya

L420: High Member
Jun 17, 2012
493
191
Basically, none of the non-melee "no random crits" weapons use it as a way to make the weapon worse; instead, the very concept of random crits is nonsensical to them.

Guillotine: Novel weapon type. Not comparable to its replacement. "No random crits" is only written because its slot typically has them; it's comparable to how sniperrifles don't do random crits.

Short circuit: Random crits don't actually matter one way or the other for this thing's balance, because its core function is fundamentally unique.

Enforcer: Random crits would just be broken on it. When you actually look at it in context, it doesn't actually make it significantly better regarding its counterparts than with default settings when you remove random crits from those other weapons.

Mangler, phlog, manmelter, frontier justice, carbine, diamondback: These weapons all use non-random minicrits or crits as a defined function. Having random crits would be downplay that controlled function, and be more confusing to new players.

I don't see anything to lose in any of these weapons by disabling ranged weapon crits.
 

Toomai

L3: Member
Apr 14, 2011
129
144
Basically, none of the non-melee "no random crits" weapons use it as a way to make the weapon worse; instead, the very concept of random crits is nonsensical to them.
It's subtle, but I wouldn't call it "nonsensical". The Flying Guillotine could feasibly roll crits per throw. The Short Circuit could conceivably crit like a rapid-fire weapon. And for weapons that make their own crits, it is indeed a balancing factor (though an otherwise sensible one). Image sniper rifles with random crits - that would be too strong and encourage bodyshot spam.

That said, using "no random crits" for balance on guns is indeed not as important as the same balance on melee weapons, and I couldn't really complain if I found a server where melee crits are on but other crits are off. Still, firing around a corner and hoping for a crocket that might break the stalemate, while the other team has to watch for incoming crits and can't just assume they'll survive the incoming spam...randomness is usually bad, but it can change player behaviour in usable ways if they're aware of it, know what I mean?
 

wareya

L420: High Member
Jun 17, 2012
493
191
At the same time, I feel like maps that depend on "abusing" weapon crits to make up for their shortcomings are going to play poorly in the first place, but that's subjective, so it's a non-argument.
 

Turbo Lover

Fight me under Glasgow Central Station
aa
Feb 15, 2011
333
344
This new command pretty much solves the issue with Medieval needing special server configs from this public discussion that went nowhere but I still feel like if you're going to disable crits, it should be universal. A Medic with Uber doesn't fear the punching Heavy slowly walking towards him and his patient, he fears the sticky lobbing Demo on the other side of the arena.

Put me down as being in favour of it, but I don't think it's a satisfactory compromise.