cp_silvertrail

[Ravidge]

Current version:
name: cp_silvertrail_a7
released: march 8th (2009)

A gravelpit-style capture point map.

Download: http://forums.tf2maps.net/downloads.php?do=file&id=869
(EU) Mirror: http://213.115.191.55/~ravidge/cp_silvertrail_a7.zip

Images of latest version:




Overview: http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/n...ail_a70021.jpg

[Ravidge]

(This is the old first post.)

ALPHA 1

cp_silvertrail
A gravelpit-style capture point map.

development process: make a basic layout in MSpaint -> dev blocking in Hammer -> make quick changes -> more work in Hammer, installing entities -> figure out theme -> naming -> post thread

Normally I come up with a theme/name first and then start making sketches, not this time however. I'm also new to this whole "blocking out" business.

At first I was going to use the desert theme and maybe make it a more industrialized area, with huge pipes and machinery scattered around the map. But somewhere along the building process I got sidetracked and started looking at the alpine tools at hand... Needless to say they were few and not as developed as the desert theme. But if combined they could make a nice set for my map (with some custom content). I chose an alpine + mining setting thinking it could work pretty well. Then while trying to come up with a clever name for this creation I browsed wikipedia and stumbled upon the Klondike Gold rush in Alaska/Yukon, looking at photos of these places (Yukon river esp.) inspired me a lot and so I found "The Silver trail", a road going through several cities where silver mining once flourished.

Some pictures of Yukon and the river if you're interested:
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/n...ngerRapids.jpg
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/n...gerRapids2.jpg
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/n...ity_museum.jpg
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/n.../a0/mining.jpg
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/n...n_mountain.jpg

Pictures of alpha 1:
Overview
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/n...ail_a10003.jpg

point a:
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/n...ail_a10002.jpg
I wanted this area (a) to be a little smaller than the others for some more close range action, there's quite a lot of ammo for engineers to use but with the short distances it might be hard to setup a defence before it gets smashed.
Capture point is located on the second floor of a building. Full ammopack is available at the first floor.

point b
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/n...ail_a10000.jpg
This area (b) is larger and contains less/smaller pickups. the size should be enough for a sniper to be effective but not overpowered. Capture point is placed inside a demolished house, cover is minimal but enough to hide behind. Since the house is in such poor state it's much easier to "enter" than cap A.

point c
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/n...ail_a10001.jpg
The area around point C is very open and attacks can come from several paths, meaning that a defensive sentrygun might be very vulnerable to attacks from another angle so the defensive team will have to be smart about their sentrygun placements so that they can cover each other if needed. The distance to the point is actually quite short for the blue team but with the lack of cover i hope it will be a challenging push to victory.

tunnel area
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/n...ail_a10004.jpg
This is an area right in the middle of the map and the tunnel is a great shortcut between A and B. This area can be accessed from C but then it's a one way trip through a hole in the floor. The tunnel contains a full medkit and medium ammopack, controlling this area increases the movability for your team as well as survival. This room is great for teleporters (both teams) and for red it's a chance to get behind the blue team and attack from several angles making blues job much harder while fighting over C. Of course blue can stop red from doing this with some offensive engineering (and also setting up a teleporter)


Other comments:
I have not displaced the ground yet because I'm very unsure if the map size is right.
Point B got some quick displacing and a few props to help me imagine the setting the map was taking (it's a very quick job, no detail work is final).
Lighting is not representative of how it will look later.
There is currently no optimizing at all except a few brushes turned into func_detail.
I will probably raise the skybox a little so that soldiers and demomen can jump more freely.


Questions I want help with at the moment:
The size. Is A/B/C too small/large/just right ?
Capture times? Right now A and B are a few seconds faster than gravelpit and C is a little longer. I want it to be enough for red to have a chance to defend an assaulted point.
More or less ammo and health? If yes, where?
More signs?
Too long Setup time?

If you can see a flaw in the layout already be sure to let me know, I did this map in devtexture blocks to make such things easy to fix and remodel so don't hesitate to post if you think something should be changed. I'll look into the problem and find a solution that works (might take more than one try though).

Any feedback is good feedback.

Custom silver texture (under development):
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/n...ail_a10005.jpg

Download link:
http://forums.tf2maps.net/downloads.php?do=file&id=869

Contains:
Solid walls
Recycled air
two-way stairs
A mostly pest-free environment

cp_silvertrail, the map of tomorrow, Today! (and the map of today, yesterday)

[Nineaxis]

Looks interesting, but C looks way too hard for RED. There's a reason Valve put Gravelpit C way up on top of a tower and hard to access, but easier to access for RED than BLU. With a short cap time, RED needs some chance of being able to defend it easily, and the height advantage and lack of accessibility for BLU aids this. However, if BLU wipes out RED, they'll probably be able to cap with without trouble.

With your cap C I see it being like Dustbowl 2-2. BLU can put 12 people on the cap point at different times and still lose, because RED's spawn is very close, or if BLU gets in between respawn waves, they'll get their entire team on the point.

Playtesting will be the true test, I'm interested in seeing what happens.

[Ezekel]

based on what nine axis said, you could make it slightly longer distance for red to get from spawn to C - e.g. using a fence or height + ramp. - so you can still shoot at the point from the same angles.
they'll still be able to see the point but it means they have to walk further (and U turn) to actually get there.
just a suggestion is all. though it might not work out well if it makes blu's approach to C become too much of a bottleneck

[Ravidge]

While building there were plans to make C on a tower but I decided to make it a regular building cap. The reason for this was that I didn't want to create "gravel pit 2" and to some extent It would be quite similar to cap A.
Somehow I feel that I don't want to lenghten the distance red has to walk, it's a pretty long trip to get to A or B atm and I don't want it longer (maybe shortcut doors that close when C opens?).
But if this design doesn't work I will have to rework it, which is exactly what playtesting is for.

Capture point C is the only thing that looks nothing like my initial sketches and was remade without a real plan in mind in the "building in hammer" process, any suggestions for improvement are welcome.

[Nineaxis]

I would say fill in each side of the C building with a wall, what makes gravelpit C work is that it is easy to hold by whoever is on it while a lone BLU player can be quickly overpowered due to the small space.

I don't think it has to be a tower to work, it's just that it needs to offer more cover to people on the point.

[Ravidge]

I see what you mean, thanks! I'll see if I can come up with some design ideas to implement in next/later releases.

Right now I'm learning 3d modeling (again, it's been a few years) to create some props nothing exciting but I hope it will be worth the time. I'll post progress on that too when there is some.

[Cerious]

Oh god, please put much more cover. This map looks like sniper heaven.

[Ravidge]

Originally Posted by |Cerious|

Oh god, please put much more cover. This map looks like sniper heaven.

If we take a look at gravel pit we will see that all those areas are very open with long sightlines but I still wouldn't consider them sniper heaven, just sniper friendly.
I want to achieve something similar in this map and as you can see there are almost no cover to be found in this first release. I'm planning to only put up cover where it's actually needed so that it doesn't clutter up the map, but to do so I must first get feedback from players to tell me where it's needed the most.

So don't worry, sufficient sniper cover will be added in time.

Any particular area you were thinking of?

[Ezekel]

i wasn't suggesting increasing the distance from A and B from the spawns, but making perhaps a funnel set up using chain-wire link fence for the C point. making red have to walk part way towards the far side of the area before they can physically stand on the point. but have some thing to allow for being able to still shoot at players on point C without being in the funnel - to stop cases of being unable to do anything about a lone player on the cap point before it's too late