- Fix angles of the wide cave route between 2nd & 1st to make the sightlines more favorable to offense in either direction
- Add flood-gates on the entryways to either side of the hole room to limit the spammability of that area from outside, thus making a safer place to chill out
- Move the main spawn rooms into the warehouse building they now open onto, reducing walk time to point and removing useless space
- Alter the angle at which the tunnel from the caves at middle to the CP approach the point to make it more beneficial to attackers trying to flank the CP (make the angle sharper)
- Add small health pack at the bottom of the stairway room
- Change medium health pack at the wide cave route from 1st to 2nd into a small
- Stretch the large rock arch at middle (that separates yard from middle) back towards 2nd so that it blocks sight lines from middle to the upper levels of 2nd
- BUG FIXES: clipping on hills at middle (displacements will be remade), respawn cabinets at main spawns clipping through walls, clipping on concrete ledge at middle, further lower hoodoo to allow easier scout jumping (again >_>)
I feel as if I was unjustly unfair about the map when we were testing it earlier today. Let me try to say my complaints about this map in a more organized form them my random jabbering whilst in the server.
I like the idea. I remember you said you were trying to do a Hydro-like map but based around a series of canyons and long passageways, rather then using the open spaces that are connected via smaller passageways.
After some thought I believe I've narrowed down my dislike of the map too two main issues: defensive capabilities and the sight-lines.
You say in your post above that you're fixing the second cap to favour offensive teams, and in the server you said that it's natural that once the center cap is taken the others usually quickly fall afterwords. That doesn't mean that you should design it as such. You did a good job covering the final cap, but the second cap is way to easy to take already, an it's due to the amount of pathways that an offensive team can overrun it. After the middle cap, all the preceding caps should progressively get harder to attack and easier to defend. Look at maps like Granary and Badlands. Both second caps are designed to favour the defenders, either through use of cover or through that of holding the high-ground.
As for the sight-lines, I found myself looking too much towards the sky rather then straight ahead. This is mostly a displacement and detail issue so I understand if it's not as high of a priority at the moment. As it stands though, I feel as if the walls are too high and jagged. Usually canyons are slanted in a "V" shape, slowly smoothing out as they get to the top. I think if you were to do something like this and change more of the pathways into caves it would greatly ease the strain on the eyes and better the flow (especially if you limit the canyon part itself too a single winding stretch rather then one with several splits.)
With that being said I really do enjoy this map, and I can't wait to see what you do with the detailing once your map reaches beta. Godspeed to you.
The Following User Says Thank You to Jack Riguel For This Useful Post:
Stick the spawn building at the center control point out from the wall so it point you in the direction you should be going. This will also allow for more platforms above the middle cp.
There is still way too much space. The weird ramp room between 3 and 4 on the right isn't a valid area for fighting, and I think it should pretty much be removed. The building on the left side isn't very useful either. I would put another 50% health in the middle room, neither the one in the puddle nor the 20% by the rock are appealing choices to pick up. Also the final cp probably needs to be reworked; personally I don't really like it at all. It's very campable, and when I get there neither going past the left or right side of the cp ever seems attractive. One is too flat and open, and the other is so steep you walk right up into a sentry/demo/etc.
The Following User Says Thank You to B3RING3R For This Useful Post:
Alpha 7 - 9/7
* Closed off path from the yard to the lower/hole area
* Created a one-way door into the stairway room
* Turned the wide cave path into a tunnel/building
* Added a new staircase from the hole area to the new tunnel building
* Raised height of cliffs around last
* Added a laz0r on the final CP spawn buildings
* Height of hoodoos at middle lowered
* Additional rock added to middle
* New sign at middle
* Extended rock arch into the yard to block sightlines
* Added new rock arch high above the yard
* Many new details added
* Retextured all rock walls to align with the new higher cliffs around last
* Moved some health around, making the medium health in the tunnel a small and adding a small into the stairway room
* Added a small ammo to corner of the 2nd floor by the 2nd CP
* Texture for one sign on the BLU side hole area is missing
* Clipping on the hills at middle is atrocious, will be fixed in a7a coming soon
* Power cord for the laser totally goes through the roof of the spawns
Indeed, I have to agree with Mangy here. While I'm definitely getting the vibe that last is too hard to attack (and, additionally, 2nd when the number of players gets high), the issue really isn't the CP building.
It wasn't like the offense was getting up to that building and surrounding it and the defenders were just holding them off. Not at all! It was just that with the number of approaches to the last CP area, no concentrated attack could be mounted (by an unorganized team) that potent enough to punch through both the first line of defense at the rock/arch area or the flanking tunnel area AND get into the last CP. It's almost like having another yard surrounding the last CP, except that it's not a "yard" as much as it's just the exterior of the building.
By forcing the offense to go around to the back (or top) of the building, I'm eliminating forcing the offense to actually KILL the defenders instead of just moving them off the point with spam. Plus, if I were to make that window into a door... it would basically make last 3 seconds away from 2nd, no joking. Can you say scout rush?
Thanks for the feedback nonetheless chrono, I intend to make some large changes to the flow of last in the future (mostly on the defensive side).