1. Theme still feels kinda bland. I think you're aiming for hydro-ish, but there is too little structure to make it interesting. We'll see what you come up with for beta though.
2. Sentryguns on the roof...
3. It's still a good map
4. It was hard to fight in the area between 2nd -> mid.
5. All my favorite sniperlines had been 'fixed'.
6. I was playing blindfolded.
The theme... oh the theme. I purposely avoided having too much of the indoor-Hydro/industrial because that's been done before, e.g. Vector, Eureka, Hydroelectric. So far I'm the only one who's tried to recreate the Hydro cave areas on this scale and I think that's where the charm lies. Now, it may turn out that it's still too visually bland, but that can be fixed with lighting and detail areas and 3D skybox.
The plan, for now, is to release maybe one more alpha to address some small layout issues, mainly the location of the initial spawn and the routes to last. From there I'm going to displace... or at least someone will. I'm seriously considering bringing in someone else who's very very good at displacements to help me out. Then it'll be detailing time. :3
As far as sentries on the roof: I hate that this is even an issue, but it's happened twice in my tf2m tests and brought the test to a SCREECHING halt both times. I got basically no opinions on the map today other than "Zomg, map sucks since sentry farms are good here." While that may be true, it doesn't address the issue at hand, that somehow the map makes people want to do such a useless thing. It takes an engineer a good 2 minutes to get a base up there, and in that time their team probably lost the fight and middle and 2nd because they were down a player (or two...).
Solutions: A) Nobuild the roof. I'd really hate to do this. B) Raise the roof enough that engineers can't reach it. This would hurt the balance for the rest of the classes, I feel. C) Ignore it, knowing full well that Engineers can still grief this way. I'm tending to lean towards option A, since it's just annoying more than it is effective. Today the problem was that BLU actually had 4 engineers in all overlooking spots... which, on a 12 person team, means that BLU also had no chance whatsoever to push out, and we had a lovely stalemate.
Things I need feedback on
1: The balancing of the paths at last: are they all equally useful? how can they be made to flow better?
2: The initial spawn: any ideas on where to move it to?
3: Spawntimes: do they need to change?
1: Reworking of flow around last: Pull the tunnel exit further towards the last CP, have the bridge across the gap/ramp move from where it is now from this tunnel exit to a direct path to the CP (via a doorway). Remove the walkway around the outside of the pillar between the last CP building & 2nd, and use that space to open the main pathway up more.
2: Increase thickness of ceiling @ 2nd/4th in order to decrease the perceived size of the area.
3: Raise the light levels @ 2nd/4th.
4: Fix the clipping on the hills at middle AT ALL COSTS. Try to open up some of the narrow pathways around the CP.
5: Move the health at last CP (in front of the window) out of the open and into a corner.
6: Change the location of the initial spawn to be in the rear of the current building, spawning facing towards the CP, with the option to either go left (up) or down (right).
Does anyone still think that the floor at yard or hole is too low? This is the LAST chance for that to be changed, I'm not going to throw that in later like it's nothing, because it WILL be a pain in the ass.
Reccomendation for the roof: Raising it doesn't seem like such a good option. Try putting a prop or a little fence right near where the engineers are dispensering up, blocking the telporter exits. That way, rjs and stickies get you up there fine, but engineers can't get up there. Roof should def be offlimits for engies, and the four or so peeps you see getting up there is likely to be a rather common occurence i'm guessing, especially since it appears easier to do than gravelpit.
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Could the billboards be more accessible? I tried to get up there as a FaN scout and I was far away at best. Seems the only way is to rocket jump on the hoodoo's, then again to the billboard, or dual sticky jump.
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The billboard could certainly be lowered a bit, yes. I don't think it holds much use for scouts to begin with, though. The easiest way to get there is to either rocket or sticky jump out of the water, which will propel you very much higher than normal. :3 Most people don't exactly know that, but I'm sure they will figure it out after trial & error. Also, can't a single rocket from below get up? >_>
As for the roof... bleargh. I've been told to avoid nobuilding it at all costs. Frankly it doesn't bother me as a sentry spot other than it takes FOREVER to get a base going, therefore almost always causing the team whose engineer(s) decide to build there to lose. I'm not going to do a thing about it for now, but if it happens at my next tf2m test (the only place it's happened so far), I'll probably put a small railing around that side of the building.
In a9, the floor of the yard and the lower area of the hole has been raised by 64 UNITS!!! Yes! It's been a pain in the rear, but it didn't take too long. I'm worried that my ceilings in certain areas may be a bit low now, but that will come with testing. Also, my beautiful floodgates look smooshed. >_>
My hammer crashed at 12:30 (now) and I gave out, so I'll go in and finish it tomorrow. I just need to plug some strange new leaks, fix the doors I mirrored, and add spec-cams (which I keep putting off >_>).