[PSA] Don't Test With Bots

DO NOT TEST WITH BOTS

I see a lot of people who are new to mapping say they tested with bots. It made me wonder how many people are testing their map and making changes based on bot behavior.

This is a really, really bad idea.

Bots are stupid. Even on their highest difficulty, they are stupid. They come nowhere near a human player in terms of AI. They choose classes randomly, without thinking about team composition or previous class--so an Engineer with a full base set up might randomly change to Heavy. They build and snipe in arbitrary spots--unless you bother to edit the nav mesh that is generated for your map.

They don't even jump.

That includes rocket and sticky jumping. That means no double jumping Scouts, either. And you know what else? They won't walk off anything higher than about a hundred units. Bots are stupid. (Their code is based on the AI for zombies from Left 4 Dead. Does that explain their stupidity yet?) This also means they always take the stairs--they will never just hop up a short ledge to grab health or ammo.

All this means that if your change your map based on what the bots do, you're bound to be heading in the wrong direction. You don't want your map in rotation on servers where only bots play, right? Then test with humans.

They aren't your only option, either.

TF2Maps (this website! the one you're on!) runs tests of custom maps all the time. It is free to join them and get your map played by real, human players. No bots, ever. Just watch the Events forum for game day announcements or other events and submit your map. You don't even have to be there! STV demos are automaticaly recorded and you can watch them later.

You can also join the Steam chat room and hope to be included in an impromptu test.

Bots are good for one thing, though.

It's fine to use them if you want to check your map's logic to ensure all doors and timers are functioning properly. But you should be able to do this yourself, alone. Just remember, whatever you do, don't pack the nav mesh into your bsp!

[Trotim]

sometimes I load tf2 only to play with bots on koth_trotim1

foreveralone

[henke37]

At least there are a few upsides to bots:

• They don't forget to play the game. Usually.
• They manage to find routes that humans don't instinctively find.

But this hardly compensates for all the bad points you already brought up.

[Spacek531]

I am curious why we are advised to not pack the .nav file in the .bz2. Is it for a space reason, or is it because with a .nav, server ops may spawn bots and mess up everyone's experience?

[Wilson]

Quote:

Originally Posted by henke37

[*]They manage to find routes that humans don't instinctively find.
.

If bots are better at finding their way around your map than players, then there is a problem.

[Sergis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spacek531

I am curious why we are advised to not pack the .nav file in the .bz2. Is it for a space reason, or is it because with a .nav, server ops may spawn bots and mess up everyone's experience?

if you pack a .nav into the map, you mess up everyones' experience. including the server op.

[Fr0Z3n]

It crashes servers and clients.

[fubarFX]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spacek531

I am curious why we are advised to not pack the .nav file in the .bz2. Is it for a space reason, or is it because with a .nav, server ops may spawn bots and mess up everyone's experience?

you can't override a paked nav file. if a server operator or w/e would make a better nav for your map, they won't be able to use it on their server. also, if the AI is ever updated and need new navs, you will need to release a new version of your map. keeping your nav separated is just more convenient.

[Tarry H Sruman]

We should petition Valve to have this message appear onscreen every time bots are added to a non-stock map.

[henke37]

Quote:

Originally Posted by W.S Wankhouse

If bots are better at finding their way around your map than players, then there is a problem.

Yes, because players are dumber than bots when it comes to finding routes. At least while accounting for that bots are limited at movement.